Taking the Leap From a Job to A Business Owner feat. Casey Fuerst

Casey Fuerst00:00:00 - 00:00:09
I've never been one that said, I wanna own a business. I wanna run a business. But man almighty, it's been a ride that I would never go back.
Wayne Herring00:00:09 - 00:00:31
Welcome to the business builder way podcast, where we help business builders grow leadership skills and wisdom and stay grounded Through business builder hero stories. So let's get after it. Hey, business builders. Welcome to the Business Builder Way podcast. Today, we have Casey The first of Tic Tac Toe marketing and Tic Tac Toe marketing for camps joining us. Casey, welcome.
Casey Fuerst00:00:32 - 00:00:33
Hey. Hi.
Wayne Herring00:00:34 - 00:00:37
It's really good to spend time with you today, and you're coming to us from where?
Casey Fuerst00:00:38 - 00:00:40
I am in a south suburb of Minneapolis, Minnesota.
Wayne Herring00:00:42 - 00:01:06
Super. And let's just, drop right into it. And you and I met through an interesting circumstance. And would would you share a bit? And I think it captures part of what we're gonna talk about today. You are somebody who experiments and continues to push ahead and try new things. So could you tell everybody how how did you and I, come to meet? What were you up to at that time?
Casey Fuerst00:01:06 - 00:01:36
I mean, it's such a fun story. It's kinda cringey when I think back on it, but it but it worked and it got us where we're at, so it's cool. So, I had a client. I do marketing for small businesses. I had a client who was really interested in doing Some LinkedIn lead generation, and, I was you know, it was it was still early days for LinkedIn lead generation. Now given where we're at right now, it's hard to believe that That was just a couple years ago. But I wanted to test it before I really encouraged the client to do it. So I invested in it myself for, like, a 2 month period of time.
Casey Fuerst00:01:36 - 00:02:11
It was expensive. And just to kinda see, is it getting any actual results? It what's the ROI? That kinda thing. And, that's how I met you. The the little algorithm, the company that I hired to do this found you And reached out and you responded. And and I think that, you know, you to speak for you, you saw in my profile that I had worked with camps. And so, and you, you, the name of your business is business builder camp. And so there was some sort of like a connection, thing that sparked for you. And then you responded.
Casey Fuerst00:02:11 - 00:02:20
We're like, yeah. Let's connect, you know, because you're a curious person. So then, of course, that started a conversation that's been, a journey for both of us and has led us here today.
Wayne Herring00:02:21 - 00:02:35
Absolutely. And, right, I hired you to to do marketing for business builder camp. You continue to do that. Now you're a member A business builder camp all through what some of us might call a LinkedIn, spam
Casey Fuerst00:02:35 - 00:02:35
Yeah.
Wayne Herring00:02:36 - 00:02:37
Spam message campaign.
Casey Fuerst00:02:38 - 00:02:45
Yeah. And just to be clear, I don't do that anymore, nor would I encourage my clients to. It's just gotten way too out of control.
Wayne Herring00:02:46 - 00:02:54
Yeah. So if you've ever, I'm I'm sure I'm not alone with how many of those connect requests that that I get on that platform. Right?
Casey Fuerst00:02:54 - 00:02:55
Yep. Absolutely.
Wayne Herring00:02:55 - 00:04:09
Wait. So today, on on these shows, we talk about business builder hero journeys, and we look back at The journey, described in a book by Joseph Campbell, but there's also other places where the hero or heroine's journey It's described, and it's this idea that, in order to build a business, it is a hero's journey. You are a hero, Casey first, And so are the people that are listening to this show, and it starts with a call to adventures is what the, journey says. And you've certainly been on that adventure, and then the business grows, and you go through trials and tribulations and good stuff and highs and lows. And We'll talk about some of those things today, but I think it'd be really helpful to listeners to understand what what is the business Right now, what is Tic Tac Toe marketing? As we were talking preshow, you mentioned that you have a very strong foundation, and so that foundation is You and the employer employees, the full and part time contractors in the process, Can you just tell us a bit about the guts of what you do and what you're doing?
Casey Fuerst00:04:09 - 00:04:59
So we just serve really 2 very Stinked audiences, which is why there's 2 names. We have Tic Tac Toe marketing, which is, specifically for small businesses, some nonprofits, but mostly small businesses. And then we have Tic Tac Toe marketing for camps, and that is specifically for summer camper retreat organizations. They're very distinct and very different. But the things that we offer, the kind of packages that we offer are similar within both. They include, messaging, marketing planning, and then the stuff, which is the the traditional marketing materials, websites, print materials, graphics, branding, that kind of thing that flows from all of that. So that's kind of the foundation that we've built the last 6 years now. And know that when we go at those Two very distinct audiences, very separate from one another.
Casey Fuerst00:04:59 - 00:05:11
We're we're finding much more success than when we try to lump them all together. I think that might be an important lesson for other listeners that have really distinct audiences that we can have both, but they probably cannot at the same time. They need to be separated.
Wayne Herring00:05:14 - 00:05:26
And and so how about, to to kind of measure the business a bit, like, how many employees do you have? Where are they? Are they remote? Or are they in Minnesota with you?
Casey Fuerst00:05:26 - 00:05:51
Yeah. No. We're all over the place. So, we have a small team. There's 1 full time Employee in Pennsylvania out there by you, Wayne, and, a half time assistant. She's in Canada and I'm in Minnesota. So we're all over the place, a 100% virtual. We also use contractors for specific projects or if we're just maxed out and can't can't, accomplish what we need to, then we'll pull in some Trusted contractors for different things as well.
Wayne Herring00:05:53 - 00:05:55
Nice. And when did you, when did you start hiring employees?
Casey Fuerst00:05:56 - 00:06:05
Yeah. A year ago. A year. 1 year now and we're ready to hire again. We're on the edge of what's next, and, and where we're, and where we're building the team next. So.
Wayne Herring00:06:07 - 00:06:13
Great. And, and about like how many clients do you serve? How many people you working with?
Casey Fuerst00:06:13 - 00:06:31
Yeah. That's a tricky question because there's lots of clients that are in the in various stages and so actively working with people, probably 20 at a time, that we're We're investing in. There's always a few more than that that are kind of hanging out there with the additional things that we that they're that we're waiting on them for, stuff like that.
Wayne Herring00:06:32 - 00:07:02
Gotcha. Great. And so so take us back. You have not always had your own business. You were, working in in the marketing field, and I think you worked a long time on looking at your LinkedIn profile For Nebraska Lutheran Outdoor Ministries. Right? So you were an employee, and then tell us about the call because This is the the call to adventure, the call to leave. Oh, good. You're you're having a reaction.
Casey Fuerst00:07:02 - 00:07:40
I'm having a reaction because that was Such a challenging journey for me. It really, really was. I I worked for 19 years for that organization and, they I I love Love deeply in my soul. Love the work that I got to do there, the people that I got to work with, and that organization. They were Life shaping for me. And in my mind, I was gonna be in that industry forever. I was gonna be an executive If director somewhere, I was gonna, just always live in that industry. And then, we moved, we moved from Nebraska to Minnesota for my husband's work.
Casey Fuerst00:07:40 - 00:08:28
And I kept my job for Nebraska, but, worked from home remotely, which was Not at a time when that was as common as it is now. And it was challenging. It was really challenging. On one hand, I needed it to be the way it was because it was supporting A traveling husband and 2 young kids, and the flexibility was really important to us. On the other hand, it was really hard to find the traction, the footing, the the growth that I wanted from that position once I moved. So, You know, I continued to do that work because it was what, because I, because I had that deep love for the organization and also because it was what was right for my family. But it didn't. For those last few years, it did not feed my soul.
Casey Fuerst00:08:28 - 00:08:50
It didn't. It was, it was sad. And I thought, okay, well, I'll just go find another job. And that just didn't work for me. You know, I think that I look back on it and there's still some pain that comes from that because I wasn't chosen for a number of different positions. Right. I was 2nd runner-up for a lot of different positions and, it was painful at the time. It was really, really, confidence killing.
Casey Fuerst00:08:51 - 00:09:11
And then I I, you know, I have these amazing friends in my life, and one of them who's a consultant said, you know, maybe you should try to do something on your own. And I said, oh, I've Never. I don't wanna run a business. I don't wanna do all the accounting. I don't wanna do those things. And so, but I don't really do anything halfway. And so, within a couple of days, I was like, I think I'm gonna do that. Let's do that.
Casey Fuerst00:09:11 - 00:09:25
And so, so that's kind of how it happened and evolved. And and I've never been one that Said I wanna own a business. I wanna run a business. But man almighty, it's been a ride that I would never go back. I love it.
Wayne Herring00:09:26 - 00:09:32
When when was that, roughly, that this friend came and said, I think maybe you should start your own business?
Casey Fuerst00:09:32 - 00:09:35
Yeah. Like, 6 years ago. That's yeah.
Wayne Herring00:09:35 - 00:09:36
So 2016.
Casey Fuerst00:09:38 - 00:09:40
Sure. Math is hard.
Wayne Herring00:09:41 - 00:09:42
What's that?
Casey Fuerst00:09:42 - 00:09:43
Math is hard. I don't know. Sure.
Wayne Herring00:09:44 - 00:09:49
Yeah. Well, it says that you worked at Lutheran Outdoor Ministries till 2018, January of 2018.
Casey Fuerst00:09:49 - 00:09:52
Yes. But about the last year, I was doing both.
Wayne Herring00:09:53 - 00:10:26
Gotcha. Okay. So so that's I I think a lot of people are in that spot where they do both for a little while. That's that's a way to, maybe be committed, but you haven't completely burned the bridges, and there's some benefits from having a job as well. Yeah. Right? So so when that So the friend, you know, that that we would say was the call. The friend says, I I think you ought to I think you ought to do that. And so When you when you jumped in, as you said, you you were still working, but you had it in your mind, like, I'm going for this.
Wayne Herring00:10:26 - 00:10:27
I'm gonna do it. Is that right?
Casey Fuerst00:10:27 - 00:10:29
Absolutely. Yeah. Yeah.
Wayne Herring00:10:29 - 00:10:34
And what were some of the first things that can you remember some of the first steps and things that you did?
Casey Fuerst00:10:34 - 00:11:18
Yeah. I mean, I started Talking to people, right? I started talking to the people that I knew that had the power to make decisions, to have the power and the need to hire me, and I started asking a lot of questions What is it that you need? Where are you at? Where are your challenges? And then I just looked for gaps. So one of the very first projects I did was with a good Friend who owned a, pet resort and he needed market research on who were the clients that he was serving. And so that is not something that I would have, you know, claimed as a skill, but I dove in and I did my very best Done that project, it was a blast. I learned a lot from it. It's not something I've done since then, but, but it it got me started. Right? It gave me enough income to buy my computer. It gave me a little bit of confidence.
Casey Fuerst00:11:18 - 00:11:26
It gave me a 1 more person in a network that was starting to spread the word that this person is out there that's doing this work that you might wanna talk to.
Wayne Herring00:11:26 - 00:11:29
Right. Yeah. That you are open for business.
Casey Fuerst00:11:29 - 00:11:30
Yeah. Absolutely.
Wayne Herring00:11:30 - 00:11:37
Nice. I can remember the 1st person that said yes to me, where it was, and I can remember that feeling. Can you remember that?
Casey Fuerst00:11:38 - 00:11:59
Yeah. There's an adrenaline rush. It's still there. When people say yes now, I Still have that same kind of, like, honor. It feels like, oh my gosh. They're trusting me to do this. And and, you know, I'm not I'm not the cheapest person out there, and so I always just feel like a big responsibility when people are gonna pay me to do this work.
Wayne Herring00:12:00 - 00:12:12
Nice. And and when you started, did you think that you were gonna build a business, or did you think you'd be like a Freelancer and and just do the same work you'd been doing at the camp, but for multiple people? Or
Casey Fuerst00:12:13 - 00:12:35
Yeah. No. I mean, it it it's an evolving title that I give myself. Self right? So I don't think I ever would have said freelancer. I knew that I wanted to build a business. I actually thought that I was walking away from the Camp world, I thought that by doing this, I was walking away and I was saying goodbye to the camp world. There was some grief in that. The interesting thing is that Camp World followed me, and I'm so very blessed by that.
Casey Fuerst00:12:35 - 00:13:08
They they you know, there's not a there's not a huge Number of camp marketing people out there camps run on tight budgets and that's typically not something that gets on its own designated position. So Fortunately for me, that means that I'm getting tapped a lot for that, and that's been an area that I've been able to really develop and grow over the years. So I thought I was leaving the camp world. I came. I started doing this to small businesses, then the camps kind of followed me. And so it very quickly became 2 funnels, that I was supporting at the same time, and that's actually worked really well for me.
Wayne Herring00:13:09 - 00:13:47
Got it. Can you so On the on the journey then from there, when you're like, you know what? I'm in. I'm gonna do it to where you're at now with A full time employee in Pennsylvania, somebody in Canada, and then contractors helping to do all this work. In in between there, There's there's probably if you think back to the beginning, there's been some places where almost like stages or Mhmm. Where You had to become somebody different. You're you're on a journey. Can can you think of some of those, kind of points along the way, things that have happened, and how you've changed.
Casey Fuerst00:13:47 - 00:14:27
Yeah. So this is interesting. I was just actually I'm doing a new class, The certification for Mike Michalowicz is Fix This Next program, for business people. And I was listening to one of the modules this morning, and he was talking about how, he was using a story of an of a hiker that got lost in, Hawaii, I think it was. She was out there for 17 days. She survived, fortunately, but, part of the challenge was that she was trusting her gut, trusting our instinct to try and get her out of that situation. And it it It didn't. And I think that for me, there was a really significant point a few years ago where I started to recognize that I could only get so far on my own.
Casey Fuerst00:14:28 - 00:15:25
And I, my instinct was good. Had a natural instinct for problem solving, building a business in a lot of ways, wearing lots of hats. But, I needed outside experts and outside support. And that's where, you know, Business Builders Camp has been So significant for me and that it provides you with your thinking and your resources that you provide, but it also provides other people who are really helping me to see different ways of thinking, sparking ideas for me. I think that's a lot of why you do this podcast, right? That when we hear other people's Stories, when we surround ourselves with really smart, interesting people, we all benefit. And so a significant, shift for me is a few years ago when I started tapping into more of those and valuing them very differently than previous. Previously, advice was great. People who had done it before were awesome, but I didn't lean into it the way that I have the last few years.
Casey Fuerst00:15:25 - 00:15:32
And that's Just been a huge growth for me, and and I'm really grateful for business builder camp because of, what that's given me.
Wayne Herring00:15:33 - 00:16:11
Gotcha. And and I was thinking this morning, knowing that we were gonna have this conversation about how I've experienced See you. And one of the things that I've observed is what you're you're talking about now is you you keep Experimenting, trying things, looking for information from other people and then testing it, integrating it. And gradually, you keep moving ahead, moving ahead, moving ahead on this, journey. What are some of what are some of the Kind of places you've gone to learn and and get knowledge to move ahead.
Casey Fuerst00:16:11 - 00:17:04
Yeah. I'm a big reader, So I read a ton of, books. I've got, collections of authors and books that I just really thrive on The energy that I get from from reading. I also because of the because I'm a StoryBrand certified guide, I have access to People that are also within that kind of book author network. Just last week, I was with, another group of business owners in New York City, and we were able to sit down with Mike Kalowitz for a couple of different engagements, 1 on 1, just our very, very small group and him and really just learned from him. And and that's been a huge Asset for me, the network and what it provides me links to, authors, books, podcasts, Mastermind groups, all of that stuff really, really matters. Not just in, in me learning, but in feeding the energy. It gives me energy.
Wayne Herring00:17:05 - 00:17:11
What what is what is something you learned from Mike Michalowicz when you were, with that group last week?
Casey Fuerst00:17:11 - 00:17:37
Good question. He talked a lot about the difference between growth and scaling. So he said growth is more inputs and more outputs. Right? We put more work in, we do more, we do more, we do more, and we make more money from it. Scaling is when we're putting in The same or less inputs, but getting more outputs. And that that that framework, that idea really is significant for me right now.
Wayne Herring00:17:38 - 00:17:42
How do you, how do you think that you can apply that to your business?
Casey Fuerst00:17:44 - 00:18:22
Well, there's 2 parts of my business, right? The small businesses and then the camps. And the camps are really the space where we can scale right now. There's a lot of rinse and repeat with the things that we're doing with Camps, I mean, they are very different. So we're really conscious of that and wanna honor their uniqueness. But as far as the services we provide, there's a lot of Systems that we can put in place to to really repeat them often with that audience. With the small businesses that requires a lot more of Casey to execute, and, that means that I can grow with that, but I probably am not it's not as it's not as readily available to scale, so that's been applicable.
Wayne Herring00:18:23 - 00:18:32
And that ties into you told me, as we got started, I want to grow a business, but not At the expense of joy.
Casey Fuerst00:18:32 - 00:19:24
Yeah. It's you know, I think maybe it's the time of year, but we're all thinking about The next year and what that means and the vision for it and planning for it and, there's a there's a part of me that's felt really forward lately. And I think it's because well, I know it's because I don't have that, risk, taking hat on, that that space where I'm saying what's Possible. What's the kind of like outliers that feel like they're giving me energy, but I'm not tapping into them and really going after them. And I know myself enough to know that I need both. I need the the as you call it, the money work. Right? I need the depth rinse and repeat scale, but I also need the sexy work which is that thing that new ideas sparking that I don't know if gonna go anywhere, but I need to explore it. And I need to go after it and test it.
Casey Fuerst00:19:24 - 00:19:38
And if it falls flat, it falls flat. You know? But I there's just some joy and energy that comes from that entrepreneurial piece that, I I absolutely need to tap into to feel that joy.
Wayne Herring00:19:39 - 00:19:58
Yeah. I think that's a that's a topic that a lot of Business owners confront as they're building, and it's and some of it depends on their makeup and what what kind of person they are and what, What they're pursuing and what drives them. But you said, I felt bored lately. And I need to,
Casey Fuerst00:19:59 - 00:19:59
So
Wayne Herring00:19:59 - 00:20:42
I need to spark joy and do something different, but I also recognize that sometimes in boredom come Riches or stability or it it it's it's in the like you said, that's where, somebody builds a Simple ice cream stand. And if it works and it's profitable, and then they go build another one That's exactly the same. And then another one that's exactly the same. Wash, rinse, repeat. Wash, rinse, repeat. That that can really work. And I've been you're You're a book lover. So this morning, I was reading Jim Collins' Turning the Flywheel, which was it's a monograph to accompany the book Good to Great.
Wayne Herring00:20:42 - 00:21:30
And this idea of a flywheel is that when we, when we get this thing turning and then we do it over and over and over again, And it can, it can work for a long time and we have to, stick with it or, or it can be beneficial to stick with it. So how you're segmenting that, seeing the boredom, seeing it for what it is, but then Acting anyway and working to scale anyway, that that I think is useful for a lot of people. How do you, how do you see balancing that in the year ahead? How do you stay conscious of Sticking with the money, work that can get boring, but also stretching.
Casey Fuerst00:21:31 - 00:21:51
That's a good question. I don't know the answer. I I think that I can only put systems in place to try and recognize when I'm, you know, my when I'm feeling a certain way, when I'm feeling bored, and Trying to carve out the space to go after more of that sexy work or at least thinking time and exploring ideas. Yeah. I don't know if I answered that question well.
Wayne Herring00:21:52 - 00:22:09
Well, I think you answered it by saying you're not, you're not quite sure yet. Yeah. Did, can you see how, your, your various mastermind groups, because you have this group of 6, I think, that you were in New York City with. Right?
Casey Fuerst00:22:10 - 00:22:12
No. There was just 3 of us.
Wayne Herring00:22:12 - 00:22:23
Oh, oh, wow. 3. On because you're on Broadway and, all that. So you got that small group of, marketing peep they all they all do pretty much the same thing you do. Right?
Casey Fuerst00:22:23 - 00:22:24
Similar. Yes. Correct.
Wayne Herring00:22:25 - 00:22:40
And and then you've got your business builder group, which are people who are in different businesses that are all all not doing exactly The same thing you're doing, but they all wanna build a business. They all want to have something that's repeatable. Right.
Casey Fuerst00:22:41 - 00:22:42
Yeah. Yeah.
Wayne Herring00:22:43 - 00:22:57
And somehow within those groups is where we can get Stability and and have people share and keep us on track with what's gonna pay the bills, so to speak, is what it It seems that way to me.
Casey Fuerst00:22:58 - 00:23:53
Yeah. You know, in both it's interesting. We talked about this last week when we were together, but the there's this kind of overwhelming Message coming at me from lots of different directions right now to go deep with the mark with the camp piece, to to scale it, to grow it, to do the thing. And I've resisted that. Not because I don't love camps, obviously, that's just my heart in in so many different ways, but because I'm not as Excited about that work as the small business work. And and so I've really kind of I've I've I've had to stop and say, all of these people, all of these really, really smart people are telling me That this has great potential. And so, I am listening to that and I am really going to invest in that. But, I also recognize if that's the only thing that I do, then I'm going to be missing out on the joy.
Casey Fuerst00:23:53 - 00:24:22
I'm gonna be missing out on, the feeling of Of of excitement that I get when I'm doing something different. But also, I think I'm missing out on potential that I don't even know exists yet. So there's gotta be a part of me that's always going after that other thing, that other idea, that that thing that excites me. And it doesn't mean that I can't do both. I mean, that's the value of building a team, right, is the team can start to take some of that money work, And I can and really carve out time for myself to do that sexy work.
Wayne Herring00:24:23 - 00:24:47
Yeah. So and maybe maybe for business builders, that Feeling of boredom that you're describing at times may be key. You know, recognizing that and then leaning into it might be key To building the the machine, that is going to keep serving people is something really valuable. I wonder if Henry Ford was bored by the Model T. Yeah.
Casey Fuerst00:24:48 - 00:25:06
Gosh. That's such a great question. I imagine it was. I mean, at a certain point, he kind of I think we all do. Right? We start in the System and we're super in the weeds, and we're, like, putting it all together. And then once we've done it a few times, we're ready to hand it to somebody else to do because now we're on to the next exciting thing, and that's kind of how I feel about all of it.
Wayne Herring00:25:06 - 00:25:59
Right. And we can and we can imagine that when people got their first Model T, they They they really didn't care whether Henry Ford had gotten bored because to them, it was brand new and pretty exciting. And I'm I'm thinking that, Yeah. Like like your camps, same thing, or or me and my work with, you know, 1 one more business that, wants to wants to grow. Sure. It it sometimes for us, but, wow, for them, the impact Mhmm. Can be, can be huge. So along the way, as you've been on this journey, can you think of, where are there some times where there's been trials and tribulations and hard stuff that made you, Question whether you wanted to turn around.
Wayne Herring00:25:59 - 00:26:02
Your eyes just got real big for those people not watching on YouTube.
Casey Fuerst00:26:04 - 00:27:15
Yeah. You know, for me, the trials and tribulation and haven't necessarily the last few years haven't been in the business itself. It's been in the personal stuff, had a couple of significant deaths And our family that have rocked our world, tragic death. And, I think That it how does that what it why does that matter right now? Because what it did was show me that I always have to be able to step away from the business for a short amount of time, for whatever time I need to continue to prioritize my family and the things in life that matter. And I learned a lot from having gone through that. I learned about the type of business that I wanna build, which is one that's, sustainable without me, at least for the short term, not quite there yet on the, on the long term, but one that can continue to function if I have to step away for a period of time. And, and that gives me the ability to continue to balance My life, my family, my husband's family, all of the people that matter to us, in addition to the business.
Wayne Herring00:27:18 - 00:28:01
So I, I think that is an important, lesson for me and, and For anybody listening to this or or it's you know, one one of the things that I want us to do with this podcast is Create, at times, thought exercises for entrepreneurs to go through that. So you've been through this situation. A lot of people haven't. And if they can think through it right now, and hopefully that particular And saying doesn't happen, but life happens. Life happens for all of us. We don't know when or where or how. So to go through a thought exercise of what it might look like, That that would benefit people. They can get their get their journal out.
Wayne Herring00:28:01 - 00:28:06
So, what would you suggest that they sit and And journal about and think through.
Casey Fuerst00:28:07 - 00:29:00
Yeah. I mean, I think that for me, let's let's just take it literally and say If someone very, very close to you and your family dies tomorrow and you need to remove yourself to go be present for your family for weeks on end, could you do it? Could you step away and could the business survive? What would be the crisis points? Where would the challenges be? What would you need to jump back into? And is that okay with you to have Jump back into those things or do you absolutely need to be able to say somebody else take it for a while? I think that's a Huge activity, and I still need to do it myself. You know? Could I do it again? I did it, and and it was a lot by luck and God's will that I did it. But, Could I do it again? It depends on the time. Depends on what else is going on. And so that's a that's an activity that we should all do regularly.
Wayne Herring00:29:01 - 00:29:02
I hope it doesn't happen to you, but I
Casey Fuerst00:29:03 - 00:29:04
I hope not too.
Wayne Herring00:29:04 - 00:30:22
I have all faith that you could do it again. What In those crisis so, you know, I've had I've had a situation in my life where I had a child that needed A significant level of health care, and I wasn't anticipating that. And when it happened, I would have, I would say I would've given away the the farm and all the money in my retirement account, for For her well-being and health to be restored. Now, thankfully, it has through a lot of hard work and and great doctors and, You know, god's help without a doubt. So I so I've been through it. I think you'd go through it too. But when it, like, Hits the fan because it may happen to somebody listening to this. How do how do in in re reflecting back, how would somebody Take stock in the moment and and, you know, get clear about, alright, well, I gotta do this, and I gotta do this, like These small steps, how did you do that? You found out and and specifically, you found out that you had, a brother-in-law that had passed, and You were gonna be there without just like I was gonna be there for my daughter, you were gonna be there.
Wayne Herring00:30:22 - 00:30:28
Can you remember how you, like, triaged and looked at your business and thought, alright, These are the phone calls I have to make. This is what I gotta do.
Casey Fuerst00:30:29 - 00:31:05
Yeah. I didn't have a, I didn't have a team at the time. And so, There was a significant amount of that that became reaching out to the clients that I served directly and saying, here's what's going on. I'm gonna be out of pocket for awhile. And, I you know, I clients become friends quickly for me, for good or bad. And because of that, they were incredibly understanding and and Just grace filled. So there was just a huge amount of grace on their part in terms of me not being available to them to fulfill whatever was going on in their world. Certainly, I think there was some luck in it.
Casey Fuerst00:31:05 - 00:31:26
I think it was timing that worked that I could do that. But then also I started tapping people that I knew to said, hey. Can you plug in in this way? And it worked. I don't know how it worked. I probably did some things wrong. If I were to do it again, I'd probably do it differently. But I think that, Yeah. I was fortunate.
Casey Fuerst00:31:26 - 00:31:28
I was able to make it work.
Wayne Herring00:31:29 - 00:31:49
Well, I think that proactively Reaching out to people, being clear, and asking for help is a thing that's hard for us at times, and that's what you did really well. How and and then What what is it that creates these really strong relationships with clients do you think that would allow you to make that phone call?
Casey Fuerst00:31:50 - 00:32:49
Well, let's just, I mean, this brings up a whole nother area and that is who do we, how do we choose who we work with, right? How do we, how do we Decide who gets our time and attention. And one of the things I've learned, over the years is there's a certain type of Client that I serve very well and that is a very open, authentic, strong, Sassy client, right? Somebody that's just got it, they've got a voice and they're not afraid to use it. There's somebody that's real with themselves and with others. And so when when I approach that and that's who I am, it's not hard to see how you quickly connect. Right? It's you and I. It's this ability to be able to really be vulnerable with each Name the things that are scary and hard and that I didn't do right. And so by choosing the right clients, which I'm not perfect at, but, I think that that opens the door for me being able to be vulnerable with them in that case and say, hey. Listen.
Casey Fuerst00:32:49 - 00:32:56
I'm out. I'm out for a while. I need I need you to I need you to press pause on what we're doing. I promise I'll get back to it.
Wayne Herring00:32:58 - 00:33:02
Nice. And, and you have that trust and you'd followed through on commitments Like that.
Casey Fuerst00:33:02 - 00:33:04
Yeah. Yeah. Of course. Yeah.
Wayne Herring00:33:05 - 00:33:14
When when you so so looking ahead on your journey, what What do you what are you seeing down the road? What plans do you have for growth?
Casey Fuerst00:33:15 - 00:33:57
Yeah. I mean, because I have the team now, what it's doing is Allowing me some space to say, what is the sexy work? And what is the excitement that's coming from it? I'm doing this, I'm doing a certification. I fix this next. Not because I want to become a business coach, I do not, but there's a huge amount of work that we do with business leaders where we're oftentimes asked to give you give advice, give opinions on different things, And I and I want a resource that I can actually lean into and say, here's something you may wanna check out. So that's happening. That learning feeds me, of course. There's some work that I'm doing around innovation and helping people to start to imagine, frameworks that might help them be more innovative. And I wanna lean into that a little bit in that area.
Casey Fuerst00:33:58 - 00:34:48
Coaches and consultants are an amazing Niche that I really love working with. And so, I wanna do more of that in the sexy work. And on the camp end, we're building all Clients have new different kinds of ways of working with camps, right? For the 1st time in the last 6 months, we're actually taking on clients where we do their marketing for them. We are their fractional marketing service, which is exciting and fun. We're building a bunch of camp websites right now that are all scheduled. There's like 3 of them that are gonna go live in the Next week there's you know excitement around just marketing planning for camps in a way that pre covid wasn't there. That's really exciting to see camps come back from this pandemic. So there's lots of stuff happening, lots of really good things that 2023 is gonna evolve shape.
Wayne Herring00:34:48 - 00:34:54
What will your would your new employee likely be working in that camps area quite a bit?
Casey Fuerst00:34:54 - 00:35:17
Probably. Yeah. That's The goal, you know, as we grow this up, this, this market in serving camps ongoing, serving the the fractional marketing Department kind of way, then that's where we see the opportunity to hire again. That that they'll be plugging into that, creating actual materials for camps. So Design, content, that kind of thing.
Wayne Herring00:35:17 - 00:35:26
Sure. And, and how did you, how did, how did you go by about finding your first Employee. And, will you look this next time?
Casey Fuerst00:35:27 - 00:36:14
Well, that was, that was a 100% because of your guidance. So, we did a lot of work creating the right job description, And thinking through how am I gonna onboard train this person well? What are they gonna do? At least out of the gate, knowing that we would shape it into the future. So we did all that prework, which made it, much more successful when we did it. And I actually when I hired, Went down a path with 1 potential employee where we even did some they did some freelance work for me, and ultimately it didn't work out. The person was fantastic, but we just couldn't reach an agreement on how we would work together. And that was disappointing. I felt like, now I've got to start over. In the end, I think that I ended up with a really, really great guy that, is doing fantastic work.
Casey Fuerst00:36:14 - 00:36:28
His name is Carter. He's, I'm just so proud of the growth that I've seen in him this last year, but also just he's just a really fun guy to work with, and and I met him at a conference. I was at a camp conference, and he was there, and we hit it off and started talking.
Wayne Herring00:36:29 - 00:36:34
And at some point, you must have, had the feeling like, maybe this could be my person. Right?
Casey Fuerst00:36:34 - 00:36:36
Yeah. For sure. For sure. Pretty quickly.
Wayne Herring00:36:38 - 00:37:18
So so in both part of your story as you talked about the clients and how you were able to take the Time off that you needed to care for family. It had to do with finding the right clients and the right people and then working with them. And then As as you talk about building your team, you just you said something very similar is that you were very intentional about who was it that you wanted to hire and what would they do and what kind of values Would they have to be on the team? And because you got clear about that ahead of time, then in a conversation at a conference, you're able to Get that feeling like, oh, like, yeah, this this is a person that I've been visualizing. Right?
Casey Fuerst00:37:18 - 00:37:42
Yeah. That's absolutely true. But, you know, here's the thing, Wayne, and I've been in enough positions, this position that I worked with previously that we talked about already, where I've had to hire and fire people. Right? And you don't do it right. And you you think you know somebody and you they're gonna be a great fit and then they're not. So it's not like it's just a magic light switch that you do the work and then you have the perfect employee. Right? There's always gonna be We're human. We're evolving.
Casey Fuerst00:37:43 - 00:37:58
There's not gonna be perfect fits. We might have to say goodbye to somebody. All of that kind of stuff. I think that The work helps you to to get it right more often. And I'm thankful that I I that the work got helped me get it right this time.
Wayne Herring00:37:59 - 00:39:12
Well well done. So we can we can expect to watch you on the campsite, continue to, Come up with, systems that serve people and add to your team. And then over on the sexy and and fun work side of things, You're you're taking these classes and learning to this process of thinking and innovation so that you can pass that on to other people. And you've helped a number of, my clients and the people that are that are in Business Builder Camp with marketing projects And and to help them move ahead. So I'm I'm gonna ask you to, like, put on your adviser hat a little bit now. And thank you for putting it on. And, so what tell us a bit about your work. You know, marketing is such a Can be such a, I don't know, scary thing, and it's we we are being marketed to all the time on Social media, and we're we're very, clever copywriters are coming at us as business owners, whether coaches like me Or, you you worked with somebody who in our community, Susie, who has a driving, rehab, practice.
Wayne Herring00:39:13 - 00:39:51
You're working with Loretta, pretty traditional manufacturing business. And and I know that them and and I, we're we're bombarded by you should do this, and you need to be here, and you need to do that, and you need to do all these things. So if you were to, yeah, just kinda slow it down a little bit, and what what what should, business builders, What's it what should they be doing for marketing, and how do they stay out of that fray and noise of all the things they should be doing and and get a little bit of peace and clarity, about the marketing part of this.
Casey Fuerst00:39:52 - 00:40:32
Yeah. It's such a great, setup for understanding what business builders are up against with marketing. You know, marketing, there's just marketing is ever a lot of different things. It's a lot of things and and we're constantly bombarded with what's the thing we should be doing. And most people that are telling us what we should be doing are speaking from their own perspective, And what they needed, what they provide, all of that good stuff. So if we were to just calm it down, just wipe the slate clean and say where do you start? What's the foundational piece? It's the clarity around who you are, who you serve, and how you do it. Right? So this is where I'm a StoryBrand certified guide. StoryBrand is a mod a framework by Donald Miller.
Casey Fuerst00:40:33 - 00:41:22
And we really go backwards. We really start at that Foundational level to say, do we have that message clear enough? If we're able, are we able to communicate it in a way that It propels people to want to enter into the story that we're telling. So that message piece is the foundational piece. All of the stuff that we do: video, podcasts, Email, social media, all of those things that we do. Some of them are going to be necessary for you but not all of them, right? And none of them matter if our message isn't foundational. If it isn't strong and really really clear. Right? There's just so much clutter out there that reaching the people that we need to reach, we need to be able to do it fast and efficiently, and we can't do that if we're confusing. And so we have to get really clear about that message.
Casey Fuerst00:41:22 - 00:41:33
That's the number one baseline thing. If all you ever do for marketing Just get clear in your message and use that message. You're light years ahead of your competition most of the time.
Wayne Herring00:41:34 - 00:41:40
Message first before stuff and before tools.
Casey Fuerst00:41:40 - 00:41:41
Mhmm. Yep.
Wayne Herring00:41:42 - 00:42:11
It seems to me in observing clients, business builders will come to me and be like, hey, I I hired a SEO firm And this is gonna be it. Or, hey. I'm doing, Facebook now, and this is gonna be it. And it and it strikes me that a lot of times, they're they're meeting marketing people who what what is that old adage? If If if you've got a hammer, every problem looks like a nail. Yeah.
Casey Fuerst00:42:11 - 00:42:11
If you've
Wayne Herring00:42:11 - 00:42:16
got a screwdriver, every problem looks like a screw. Okay. Right?
Casey Fuerst00:42:16 - 00:42:48
Yeah, that's very true. And I, and, those, those marketing folks that are out there doing that and really niche ing down to that SEO or websites or whatever it is that they do, they're not bad And they're not doing bad work. They're doing really good work. The the argument that I would make is that that work gets accelerated and blown up When your marketing message or foundational piece is solid. Right? Do all of those things. You may end up saying, yep. I absolutely need to Still do all of those things. But once you have that message clear, those things just skyrocket.
Wayne Herring00:42:49 - 00:44:01
When I and I think the the other hard thing about Those things, even if they're being done well, I use the, medical analogy. Sometimes You have specialists who are they know about heart health or they know about, the the podiatrist or In medical world, we have specialists. In marketing world, there are specialists. But who is going to be the The quarterback or who is going to be the, person on your team that sees how they all Fit together that who's going to integrate all those different specialties? That's the hard thing for business owners At times. Mhmm. How how do they pull in SEO, Facebook, what social media, whatever these things. And and they try, along with knowing about employees and profitability and the operations side of their business, are also Trying to do the marketing coordination between all these specialists. What what would you say to that business owner that's Trying to understand all these things and feeling overwhelmed.
Casey Fuerst00:44:01 - 00:44:41
Yeah. Well, I mean, I've been there in the last 6 years as I've grown this That's right. You start out as an entrepreneur and your reason that you're an entrepreneur is because you can wear lots of hats and you can dig in and you can figure things out and get them done. But there comes a certain point in any growing business where you have to start to take hats off and become more specialized. Like that's the only way to do it. And so Oftentimes for business owners, especially those that aren't. Well, all of them, frankly, marketing is, is a thing that's easy to outsource. It's a thing and that you can easily take this huge chunk of work and shoulds and coulds and would if I had times and hand it to somebody else.
Casey Fuerst00:44:41 - 00:44:54
And that's incredibly valuable. Especially when you hand it to somebody who knows their stuff. Right? They can get things done at a much faster and more efficient A more polished rate. They make you look good. Right? That's why we exist. We exist to make you look good.
Wayne Herring00:44:56 - 00:45:02
So that's the kind of thing that you can do is is be, Yeah. Back and coordinator for all Yeah.
Casey Fuerst00:45:03 - 00:45:03
Yep. Absolutely.
Wayne Herring00:45:04 - 00:45:36
Pieces. Kind of last, trail that I'd like to go down, with conversation is in Business Builder Camp, we talk about Building businesses. But then we also talk about, finding joy in integrating life. And you talked about that in a rough Situation like that was one of your hard parts is where you went through a family thing that affected business. But how do how do you integrate? How do you integrate business and life? How do you harmonize those things, together?
Casey Fuerst00:45:40 - 00:46:25
Gosh, there's so many different thoughts that are going through my head. I was thinking first about How my parents' generation didn't, there was very clear boundaries between work and home. And they, you know, they left work and they left it there and they came home and they did their here. And I don't know why it's been this way, but that's not the way that my family, my husband and I and our kids operate. It's all very, very melted together. Our kids are knowledgeable about the work that we do. We talk about it a lot. And I think that one of the Really, things that I'm very proud of in that is that our kids understand what it takes to To win, to be successful.
Casey Fuerst00:46:25 - 00:46:51
And it's not just money and it's not just titles. It's that balance. It's that sense of I can Come home at the end of day and laugh with my family and and sit and talk about each what's what's what's on our hearts, what's what's important to each of us in different ways. And, so it's all there's there's very blurry lines between work and home for our family. And that's the way we like it. It doesn't work for everyone, but it does for us.
Wayne Herring00:46:53 - 00:46:54
And, and how many children?
Casey Fuerst00:46:55 - 00:46:55
2.
Wayne Herring00:46:55 - 00:46:57
And how old are they?
Casey Fuerst00:46:57 - 00:47:01
Well, 1 will be 17 in a week and the other one is 20.
Wayne Herring00:47:03 - 00:47:22
What would, and So if we were interviewing them, what what would they say that you what what if we're interviewing of course, like, we can't get inside somebody else's But what what would you think that they would say you do, or or what would they say about that work life blurring and Family harmony.
Casey Fuerst00:47:25 - 00:47:59
I don't know. I don't know. You'd have to ask them that. I think that they I hope That they would say that they have by osmosis learned so much by just watching their dad and I Exist in our worlds and communicate and connect with people. I hope that and more than just like they learn what a marketing message is, I hope that they learn what it looks like to have hard Conversations and to, sell things and to be authentic in who we are and to make ethical decisions So all of that kind of stuff. Right? I hope that that's what they get from it.
Wayne Herring00:47:59 - 00:48:22
Yeah. Very good. And I, I, I would imagine that they, they are getting a lot of that if that's You have in your heart to convey to them. If if business builders are, sitting down today and journaling, or if they're doing that tomorrow morning, when they sit down and journal, what is, something that you would encourage them to write about?
Casey Fuerst00:48:24 - 00:48:46
Well, only because it's been significant for me lately is this idea of money work versus sexy work. Right? What is your money work? Where could you go deep? Does it feed you the way that you want it to feed you? And what's your sexy work? Maybe it's the same thing. I don't know. For some people, it could be. And and maybe just helping to start to process what are those things, and are you giving enough attention to each of them?
Wayne Herring00:48:48 - 00:49:19
And and by being intentional about that and writing it, what do you what do you think people will get get out of that? Because I It it it seems like sometimes that's what's going on with the the the brain in our being wants something To, to feed us, but, but we aren't getting clear about it. We aren't right. So, there's something about writing it that Makes it, I don't know, okay or, or more focused, less haphazard. What, what do you think?
Casey Fuerst00:49:19 - 00:49:46
Yeah, I think that's true. I also think that there's something about defining Terms and defining how it applies to you that matters. So, I'm fascinated by Brene Brown's work and the Atlas of the Heart, her latest book, is really just a definitions book. Right? But by understanding and acknowledging and Acknowledging and using those definitions and those words in new ways, we learn about ourselves in new ways. And so I think this is a little bit of that kind of a practice.
Wayne Herring00:49:47 - 00:50:24
Yeah. So money work, and and which could be feel boring, but that's only a feeling, and We we that's good. So I could define for me money work, and I could define for me boring. And what does that really mean anyway? And then on the other hand, sexy work, and you also use the word joy, with that one. What brings me joy? What is actually work? I could do that. I'll I'll work on that tomorrow, Casey. And I encourage other people to do that. How How can people find you, and how would they get started on the journey with you? What would a first conversation with you look like?
Casey Fuerst00:50:24 - 00:51:10
Yeah. So I work with small business owners who are really ready to dive in and do really, really strong marketing for the sake of Growth for the sake of making who they are and how they work with people better. And they can work with me by, it will set up a call is certainly the first That's, www.tictactomarketing.com, or if you're a camp leader, tictactomarketingforcamps.com. Set up that call. We'll have a really solid conversation about what it is that you're experiencing, where you think the opportunities are. And then if we think we might be a good fit for each other, then we would go forward and say how might that look and and what is that what is that cost and what is it what is time commitment and all of the things that along with it. So yeah. And I love having those conversations.
Casey Fuerst00:51:10 - 00:51:11
They're so fun.
Wayne Herring00:51:12 - 00:51:29
And from personal experience, I know that my first Conversation with you and my 2nd conversation with you were both valuable in and of themself. And even if I even if we hadn't chosen to work together, I would have learned and been better for the time that I've spent with you. So
Casey Fuerst00:51:29 - 00:51:30
Love that.
Wayne Herring00:51:30 - 00:51:36
Yeah. So I encourage people to contact you. Thanks for your time. Thanks for sharing your story, with us on the Business Builder Way.
Casey Fuerst00:51:36 - 00:51:37
Yeah.
Wayne Herring00:51:37 - 00:51:38
Go get them, Casey.
Casey Fuerst00:51:38 - 00:51:39
Thanks.
Wayne Herring00:51:39 - 00:51:55
Thank you for tuning in to the Business Builder Way podcast. If this episode spoke to you, click that subscribe button and share it with a friend. That's how this message gets out into the world. If it is helpful for us to have a short conversation, I'd love to do that. Send me an email at wayne@businessbuildercamp.com.

00:00 Discussing hero's journey in building a business.

04:09 Tic Tac Toe marketing caters to two distinct audiences.

10:34 Started by asking questions, filling market gaps.

13:47 Mike Michalowicz certification program explores trust in instincts.

14:28 Value outside support, sparked new ideas.

18:32 Thinking ahead, planning, and feeling motivated.

22:58 Feeling pressure to expand business vs. joy.

26:04 Personal tragedies taught importance of work-life balance.

29:04 Faith, crisis, health scare, overcome obstacles, support.

31:50 Choosing clients: open, authentic, strong, sassy.

35:27 Guidance led to successful hiring, occasional setbacks.

37:59 Innovative marketing and business development adviser.

42:49 Integrating specialties in marketing is challenging.

45:40 Blurring boundaries between work and home life.

50:24 Small business marketing expert offers personalized support.

51:39 Subscribe to podcast, share, reach out directly.

1. How did Casey Fuerst leverage a LinkedIn lead generation experiment to connect with Wayne Herring and ultimately collaborate on marketing initiatives?
2. In what ways did Fuerst's transition from being an employee at Nebraska Lutheran Outdoor Ministries influence her decision to start her own business? What challenges did she face during this transition?
3. How has Fuerst been able to build strong relationships with her clients by targeting a specific type of client? How has this approach contributed to her growth as an entrepreneur?
4. What steps did Fuerst take in the process of hiring her first and second employees for her virtual marketing team? What insights did she gain from these experiences?
5. What certification programs and external resources is Fuerst currently investing in to further her development as a business owner, and how does she emphasize the importance of learning in her personal and professional growth?
6. How does Fuerst plan to balance the practical "money work" and the exploratory "sexy work" in her business? How does this approach contribute to maintaining joy and energy in her business?
7. What insights does Fuerst offer on the potential impact of personal crises on businesses and the importance of building a sustainable business that can function without her presence during challenging times?
8. How does Fuerst emphasize the importance of clarity in messaging for businesses, and how does she suggest prioritizing clear messaging before anything else in marketing?
9. What are the challenges associated with integrating specialty marketing services, and how can businesses effectively coordinate these specialties to achieve holistic marketing efforts?
10. How does Fuerst's journey from relocating to starting her own business exemplify the resilience and adaptability required in the entrepreneurial journey? What lessons can aspiring business builders learn from her experiences?