Wayne Herring00:00:00 - 00:00:02
Selfishly, I can't help but wanna ask, how did you build this?
Dan Pincus00:00:02 - 00:00:07
Well, I came up with this idea around 911, which is, like, what, 2001. That's 23 years ago.
Wayne Herring00:00:07 - 00:00:09
Right? Almost.
Dan Pincus00:00:09 - 00:00:23
That's when I came up with the idea of this. One of my major clients was in the Wall Street area down in New York City, and I would commute into the city on a regular basis with this client. And I realized, listen, life is short. It's you know, you have no idea how long it's gonna be for you and what the future holds.
Wayne Herring00:00:23 - 00:00:24
Yeah.
Dan Pincus00:00:24 - 00:01:00
And I said to myself, you know, I wanna spend the rest of my life doing something I really love doing. And I actually love entertaining people. To me, when I entertain people who I like, I just have a great time. I feel like they're having a good time, I'm gonna have a good time, and I'm only hanging out with people I like, so that's what life's all about. Right? So I said, business is done through relationships. Everyone knows this, but very few will know how to actually take advantage of that. Because if you look at all the advertising for businesses, they all say, we're the relationship people. We care about you and but they don't actually truly care about you and not do anything.
Dan Pincus00:01:00 - 00:01:41
They just say it. Right? Right. And I said, as an owner of a company or even as a salesperson, your job is to actually build relations with people so they trust you and they wanna work with you. Right? So I said, wouldn't it be great to create an environment where people are not there to sell, they're there just to build relationships. And people will naturally, if you have the right people in the room, will find that they need each other and they could work together, why not work with people they like and trust. And I said golf was such a great way to build a relationship so quickly. So I said, everyone even says the old saying is there's more business done on the golf course than in the boardroom. Why has no one organized the all the golfers so they can play with people who are good for their businesses?
Wayne Herring00:01:42 - 00:01:42
Yeah.
Dan Pincus00:01:43 - 00:02:09
So I said, I'll do that. And then it morphed into social just the, you know, cat eating and drinking because a lot of people said to me, Dan, I would love to get in front of those people, but I don't play golf. And I was like, you know what? There's gotta be a way I can help those people as well, and I said, you know what? Let's create different levels of membership. People can come based on what they wanna do. They pay based on what they're getting. We don't actually nickel and dime them. It's all inclusive. They're if they're a social member, they don't pay for dinners and cocktails.
Dan Pincus00:02:09 - 00:02:25
Mhmm. If they're a golfer, they don't pay for their golf. You know? So we we try to make it so that it's not like, oh, I gotta pay now I pay this fee. Now I gotta pay this fee. Now I gotta pay that fee. It's this is my membership. Everything's included pretty much, and it's it's literally this is my budget. If I can't afford, I shouldn't be in the group.
Wayne Herring00:02:26 - 00:02:28
Right. Right. So you
Dan Pincus00:02:28 - 00:02:51
And my theory was that if I don't like the people, I don't care how much money I'm making because I didn't do this for money. I did this because I just like to do this. And I originally did it as a way to grow my marketing. I used to have my own marketing firm. Okay. I originally did this basically to build my marketing firm because I said, oh, I'm I'm gonna bring I'm gonna know all these people. They're gonna wanna use me for their marketing services. And then I said to myself, why am I doing the marketing? I can just build make this the business.
Wayne Herring00:02:51 - 00:02:51
Mhmm.
Dan Pincus00:02:51 - 00:03:12
So I just build this out, and I really don't charge a lot of money relative to what my expenses and costs are, but I make it up to make it worth my while to run it. That's pretty much it. And I my feeling that I don't wanna I don't wanna sit there and negotiate with people on pricing. Like, if you can't afford it, I'm really charging just a small fee above what it cost me. And if it's not worth it to you, it's not worth it to me, so don't join.
Wayne Herring00:03:12 - 00:03:14
Do you still have marketing firms? Or
Dan Pincus00:03:15 - 00:03:17
No. I guess I I haven't done that in many years. It's like
Wayne Herring00:03:17 - 00:03:18
what you do?
Dan Pincus00:03:18 - 00:03:24
Yeah. This this is all I do is litter it. I play golf and I eat and drink with people. I make introductions. That's all I do for a living.
Wayne Herring00:03:24 - 00:03:31
So you get had that idea around 911, and then what was, like, the first golf outing that you did? Was it So
Dan Pincus00:03:31 - 00:03:50
yeah. So how I started was I had my marketing firm back then. I actually took all my clients out for golf. I said I'm paying for all your golf. You're my guest, and I'm I want you to bring one of your clients out as well as my guest. And I didn't pay for food. It was just golf. And I played on public golf courses that were cheap courses, like, it was, like, $50 for these courses I was planning on.
Dan Pincus00:03:51 - 00:04:21
And I would have about 20 or 30 people coming out of, like, oh, it would be my clients and their guests. And people started calling me saying, hey. I heard you have twice the rest or x y z company. Could I come on and join you guys? Like, I'm not gonna pay for you, but if you wanna pay your own way, you can join us. And then another person called me and say, you know, maybe I should make this more of a business networking type thing where people can come in and actually pay a small fee. So I start up by charging $75 a year to be a member of my group. And you just paid cost on the courses then as a member.
Wayne Herring00:04:21 - 00:04:23
Okay. Got it. Uh-huh.
Dan Pincus00:04:23 - 00:04:48
And it was so much work because I didn't know who was coming, who wasn't coming, how to call all these people. I was like, this is totally not worth all my time and effort to do this. And so I realized after basically about 2 years, I said I gotta change this into a different model. So I I said, I'm gonna make this an all inclusive program. You pay an annual membership. If you don't come, I don't care. At least I got your expenses covered. I don't have to worry about, you know, filling the room and making sure I have enough people and listen to that.
Dan Pincus00:04:48 - 00:04:55
And I said, if if you can't go, send another partner of your firm out or a client out, it's it's fine, but I your spot is covered, basically.
Wayne Herring00:04:55 - 00:04:56
Sure.
Dan Pincus00:04:56 - 00:05:22
And by doing that, I didn't have to stress over having that minimum number of people and figuring out what am I doing. And I was doing it at semi private clubs when when I went to that level. And then people said to me, these are great, but you know what? I want it's not special. I can go to these clubs myself. I don't need you for this. Why don't you go to private country clubs where people don't have access to these kind of places? And I said, well, that's gonna cost a whole lot more money. And they said, well, you know, I don't care. I mean, let's so it makes it viable that I I could pay my clients.
Dan Pincus00:05:22 - 00:05:40
He's got a place that no one can get into. So I said, okay. So the prices kept going higher and higher over the years, and I mean, I mean, now, a premium golf membership is $1100 a month year round. That's, like, $13 a year. So I started this thing at $75 a year. So it's, like, insane that how it evolved over the years.
Wayne Herring00:05:41 - 00:05:46
And do you now have a small team of people that help you with all the details and organizing it?
Dan Pincus00:05:46 - 00:05:58
No. I could I do this in my sleep, Wayne. It's literally it's so easy. I know everyone in the room. I know who they wanna meet. I basically all I have to do is just say, listen. Wayne, I know you gotta meet George or George, your name Mary. And I said, come on over here.
Dan Pincus00:05:58 - 00:06:22
You guys gotta talk to each other. And they're like, you know, how did you know we were gonna, like, I know your personalities. I know who you need to meet. You guys, you need to talk to each other. So it's just literally just if you know the people, there's no work. It's a matter of just doing it. And and and the other side of it also is that because I picked such amazing places, these people take care of our people like they're all kings and queens. It's like, you know, it's mister Herring, please thank you for coming here.
Dan Pincus00:06:22 - 00:06:36
Is there anything we could do for you? We'll take your golf clothes. We'll put them into the golf cart, and then I have a assistant who will help me at the events, who will register the people and and point them in the direction they need to go to where they're going. And I and my job is just to and be there, and I hang out and have a good time.
Wayne Herring00:06:36 - 00:06:38
Yeah. That's so great.
Dan Pincus00:06:38 - 00:06:58
So my my theory has always been, as soon as I'm not having a good time, Wayne, I'm done with this thing. As soon as there's a struggle or stress, that's why I I actually I always tell people even though it's an annual membership, we don't basically want you to join for a month or 2. If you act like a jerk, you're out of the group. That's why you can that's the loophole, which gets anyone out if they wanna be a jerk. You're out of the group.
Wayne Herring00:06:59 - 00:07:04
Yeah. Are you, like, trying to grow it, or is it just if it does, it does, and it's fine. And
Dan Pincus00:07:05 - 00:07:44
Yeah. I have a solid group of people. Like I said, we have about 40 solid companies in the group. I I always like to bring in more people because the more the bigger it gets, the more valuable it is for everyone in the room. But I don't wanna grow it too much, but I I would like to grow to probably double the size it is now that that would be amazing. And I actually originally wanted to make this thing, like, worldwide program and have chapters all around the world and you could travel wherever you wanted to to do business and play golf at different country clubs. But like I said, I've been doing it for so long at this point that do I really want all that headache of having to worry about all of the logistics and the work and the the personalities and the it's it's a lot to do as you grow a business. And then there's an old saying be careful what you wish for it.
Dan Pincus00:07:44 - 00:07:46
I'm sure you're familiar with that saying.
Wayne Herring00:07:46 - 00:07:46
Sure.
Dan Pincus00:07:46 - 00:07:53
And at at this point in my life, you know what, if it comes easily, I'll do it. If it doesn't come easily, I don't really care.
Wayne Herring00:07:54 - 00:08:08
Yeah. If somebody wants to join your golf network in Northern New Jersey, how would they they could connect with you, Dan, through LinkedIn, which is what I've done. But what's the website for your company where they could get more info?
Dan Pincus00:08:08 - 00:08:36
Worldgolfnetwork.com. Again, my my email is dpinkas@worldgolfnetwork.com. And literally, when someone wants to get involved, my goal is to make sure that it's worth their while. It's what it's worth my while. Again, I don't want them joining and meeting people who are not relevant for them because otherwise, why'd they join. Right? I never understood why people who run groups say, oh, as long as you don't compete with someone else, we don't care what you do. Come on in. Like, well, don't you care about what they do so that you know that you can introduce them to people who are relevant to them? I'm like, no.
Dan Pincus00:08:36 - 00:08:48
No. No. Someone will maybe eventually know someone. Like, well, isn't time worth something for people? I never understood how people don't value their time. I always tell people you can always get your money back. You can't get your time back.
Wayne Herring00:08:48 - 00:08:49
Yeah. Right.
Dan Pincus00:08:49 - 00:09:17
So you should value the time that you're spending, and when you're even picking any networking group, you should find out, first of all, who runs the group. Do I trust the person running it? Because I'm if they're if they're not the people I trust and how I know I'm not gonna get value out of that group. And then who are the people in the group that are that are gonna be relevant for me to to network with. Right? And and do I like the people? So I don't even let people join until they actually come as a guest once. Because they have to get to know the people, make sure that this is a group of people I actually wanna get to know better and build a relationship with.
Wayne Herring00:09:17 - 00:09:23
That's great. So golf or if you just, like, hanging out at a golf club and having dinner?
Dan Pincus00:09:23 - 00:09:53
Well, yeah. It's more than that though. You literally aren't like an oasis. Okay? So imagine this, how we do it is with there's 2 sides of our program. One side is the group events and the other side is private. So the group events, you come at 2 in the afternoon if you're a golfer, You basically throw yourself into a locker for for later. You hit some balls before you practice, make sure you're you're feeling loosen yourself up. And then half an hour later, you go on to the golf carts, we make announcements, and you go off onto different golf holes and play 9 holes of golf.
Dan Pincus00:09:53 - 00:10:36
You come back, you use the showers, you change into a nice nicer clothes, and we have a cocktail hour, and then you have a sit and dinner. We put people in tables of 8. So you're getting to know people not in a huge chain everybody, and you're building a relationship with those people. And then we move you around, so every month you're meeting with different people, both on the golf carts as well as the dinners. Sure. And then if you're on the private meetings, we're bringing that one person for you and you're bringing someone who might be good for the group and we know that person, you know that person, so I'm gonna be playing if we're playing golf, I'm playing golf with your guests, and you're playing golf with my guests. And we're but we're going together as a force out there and playing golf, and then we go early in the morning, we play 18 holes, and we finish with lunch. And so either way, it's always a half a day.
Dan Pincus00:10:36 - 00:10:38
It's I feel a half a day is enough for anybody.
Wayne Herring00:10:38 - 00:10:39
Sure.
Dan Pincus00:10:39 - 00:10:48
And the theory is if you spent that much time with someone, you will know positive or negative. If you like that person or don't like that person, if you maybe let's see if we can work it together or not work together.
Wayne Herring00:10:49 - 00:10:50
Right. For sure.
Dan Pincus00:10:50 - 00:11:12
Yeah. And if you're not a golfer, we just we just cut out the golf. I mean, just we do a private meeting. We have a cup of coffee or breakfast, and when you come, you don't come for golf, you come when golf is over for cocktails and dinner and the clubs. So my theory was is I don't wanna tell you what to do. You tell me what you wanna do and do what, you know, it's like a, you know, a menu. Tell me how you wanna work and we'll work with you. And like I said, the most important thing is we all like each other.
Dan Pincus00:11:12 - 00:11:24
If we don't like each other, we shouldn't be together. Because a lot of times, people join groups just because they want that business. They're looking at they wanna know who's in the room because they wanna sell everyone in that room with their services. Like, that's not the people we want.
Wayne Herring00:11:24 - 00:11:36
So what was it like when you said there was a time where I was thinking I'd like to take this worldwide, and I want there to be chapter here, then you go anywhere. Did you take some steps in that direction and start to
Dan Pincus00:11:37 - 00:12:04
So back in 2008, we franchised our business model. We were actually franchised, and I believe it was 22 states in the United States. We actually had interest from 5 different people who wanted to give us check who actually wrote checks for us to buy franchises. 1 person actually wanted to buy the whole state of Florida. They wanted the rights to the whole state of Florida because they wanna have multiple chapters in the state of Florida. Sure. And the financial crisis hit us in 2009. So we lost over a 100 members.
Dan Pincus00:12:04 - 00:13:09
At that time, we had a chapter in Westchester, New York as well as New Jersey, and we lost over a 100 members in 2009. So I literally closed the whole system down, and I gave back all those checks to people who wanted to buy franchises and said this is not the good right time to start this program and get this thing really evolve this thing. And we closed down for 4 years because the market was just not right for people to spend money and go out and play golf and business that way because they were just people were struggling just to even keep their businesses open. The small business were barely surviving and the big businesses were, like, their budgets were very lean and mean. And so the only people actually who I had were the midsize companies, they had both the budget and the time and they will to do it, but they weren't enough people to make the whole system survive. So I only went back to the program because people said to me, you know, we we love that and we want that, and I I kind of fell into a into a typecast, kinda like George Costanza and Seinfeld where, you know, if you see Jason Exelisande, are you thinking George? It was like, no matter what I did, people said, that's the golf guy. And I I couldn't get out of that stigma, so I was like, why am I fighting it? Let me just go back to it and do it again.
Wayne Herring00:13:09 - 00:13:11
And so then started back up and now
Dan Pincus00:13:12 - 00:13:36
We started back up again. We built it up. We have a solid group of people again. A lot of the old people did not come back because they retired, they moved on, or whatever it was. And we had about maybe 10 or 20% of people who came back, but it it all we we had a lot of new people. And as I said, the program evolved, because when I started this program, we didn't even have smartphones back then. You have to imagine what happened 22 years ago and what we have today. So people were willing to take the whole day off back then.
Dan Pincus00:13:36 - 00:14:11
Now no one could take the whole day off. Half a day is all I could handle. So I evolved from an 18 whole program to a 99 whole program. I evolved from semi private clubs to private country clubs, and I also evolved from the fact that the price point, because of the fact that everything's more expensive and more elaborate in terms of what we do for our people, the people in the room are just that much more they they they have the ability to to work that much better with the people in the room because they have money. When you deal with a a group where everyone's very price sensitive and they and they were worried about paying for their bills, they're very unlikely to spend a lot of money also with the other members because they they don't have a lot of money.
Wayne Herring00:14:11 - 00:14:12
Sure. Sure.
Dan Pincus00:14:12 - 00:14:17
But when you have more money and you're willing to spend more money, chances are everyone's gonna do better for that for being with that kind of people.
Wayne Herring00:14:18 - 00:14:57
Right. Right. Yesterday, I was journaling in the morning, and I was thinking about the idea of a growth business or a lifestyle business. And we hear that distinction sometimes, And you clearly have a lifestyle business. And sometimes there's this, like, oh, you have a lifestyle business. And what I've been thinking what I was writing about yesterday and thinking about is there's a lot of clients I work with, Dan, a lot of these business owners, they have a lifestyle business. And they have a great lifestyle, and they tend to, like, have those beautiful integrated family, business, hobbies, things things that they do. And I think we should, like, celebrate that.
Wayne Herring00:14:58 - 00:14:59
Like a bad thing.
Dan Pincus00:14:59 - 00:15:21
Wayne, you know what? The more I shouldn't say the older you get, but the more mature you get, that's really the words you wanted to say. The more mature you get, the more you realize life is not, again, not promised to anyone in terms of your future. You should enjoy life as much as you can to be happy or alive and do what you really love doing because that's what life's about. It's life is all about the pursuit of happiness and being happy and being with the people you like.
Wayne Herring00:15:21 - 00:15:28
Yeah. And for some people, if they wanna do the start up thing and try to get series a and all that, that's great.
Dan Pincus00:15:29 - 00:15:51
100%. Listen. Money buys people a lot of I wouldn't say happiness, but buys them security. They buys them the opportunities to do things they couldn't do without that money. Right? For sure. But it doesn't buy happiness by itself. So money itself is not gonna be the answer to anybody in terms of being happy. It's just you need to know what makes you happy, and that's the secret of life, knowing what makes you happy.
Dan Pincus00:15:51 - 00:15:53
Once you know what makes you happy, you know what life's all about.
Wayne Herring00:15:54 - 00:16:07
Do you guys have one more question? Sure. So I show you the picture of the people at the hunting lodge. Right? Yes. And I like to do that. Do you have any, like, advice growing a business or finding people who would wanna go do that?
Dan Pincus00:16:08 - 00:16:52
Yes. If I was in your shoes because, again, don't forget, before I was doing this, I used to run sales and marketing for other companies and help them grow their businesses. Right? So what I used to always do with them is write a business plan and a marketing plan before I even would start working with them to make sure that we're on the same page of what do they want and how do they wanna grow their company. So that I know that I either I can or I can't help them because if they want something I can't do, well, why start the process. Right? But on the same token, I wanna make sure that everyone in that company is on the same page that we all want this to be what where where we wanna go. Right? So we're we're not fighting along the way to get to where we wanna be. Right? So with that said, if you want to grow that what I would call it is a club, you know, you're starting off as a club and you're gonna eventually make it into a business.
Wayne Herring00:16:53 - 00:16:53
Mhmm.
Dan Pincus00:16:53 - 00:17:49
Is you gotta what I how I and and that's kinda how I started, and it's the way I would recommend anyone start in this kind of a business. Is you first want to do what what I call a, like, a a gorilla marketing survey, where you survey the people that you think are the likely people you wanna get involved with doing this with you. And by doing that, you're gonna get a lot of feedback from them. Oh, that I really wanna do this, and I wanna do that, and then and now you're gonna get the you're gonna get a understanding of what people actually want. By by doing that, I always say, don't do what you want, do what your people want because your people are the ones who are your customers, not you. Now, if the people want something you don't wanna do, it's your choice to not do it, of course. But assuming that it's something you still you also wanna do, now you're gonna be your your likelihood of success is a lot higher than you tried something without and do their their feedback. Right? So that's the first step is is to get that get that survey out there with the people you really wanna work with and qualified if you could put together what they want.
Dan Pincus00:17:49 - 00:18:01
And make sure that the cost and the profit and the financials behind whatever you're gonna do is going to be worth your while to do. Because if it's not worth your while, don't start the process, otherwise, you're wasting your time.
Wayne Herring00:18:02 - 00:18:02
Yeah.
Dan Pincus00:18:02 - 00:18:20
And assuming everything works in order and and the financials are all make sense and people wanna do this and you got the right people, then just start. You don't have to worry about getting a 1000000 people right away. Just start with 5 people or 10 people or whatever you wanna do, and let them bring their friends out. And they'll say, this is great. You should be doing this with us, and let it grow by itself.
Wayne Herring00:18:21 - 00:18:42
The saying a club. I don't know why. Well, I I hadn't really thought of it that way, but that that's it. Like, a club. Like, the there's go through LinkedIn. There are with all those people on there, there's a certain subset that if I show them that picture and said, hey. We went to this place, and we all had coffee and good food, and we went hunting, and then we talked about business. They would say, wow.
Wayne Herring00:18:42 - 00:18:44
That I'd like to join that club.
Dan Pincus00:18:44 - 00:18:45
Yes.
Wayne Herring00:18:45 - 00:18:46
Right.
Dan Pincus00:18:46 - 00:19:11
That that's what it is. So it it's and and you could turn it from a club into a business though, because a club is something which is very casual, very like, it's, you know, we're just getting together kind of thing. If you wanna make it a true business, then what you have to have a little bit more meaning behind it. There's gotta be there's gotta be more than just people randomly getting together and doing whatever you're doing. You're gonna have a process in place that people know I'm joining for this reason. I'm gonna get this out of it. That kind of thing.
Wayne Herring00:19:11 - 00:19:31
Well, I did. So this is the 2nd time I've done a hunting trip like this. One time it was upstate New York and then this this one in South Carolina. And I've struggled with the idea like, I paid the lodge owner $1100 a person. Right? And I've struggled with the idea, like, would it be okay to charge people more than what I was saying?
Dan Pincus00:19:31 - 00:19:33
You're doing the work to get it up to make it happen.
Wayne Herring00:19:33 - 00:20:09
Well, I got over that this last trip because I was driving I drove and stayed overnight on the way driving down there. And the night I've stayed over, I went for a pretty long run-in the morning, and it hit me while I was running. I was like, shit. Like, the people I've gathered up on this trip, I know they're gonna love each other. Yeah. Like, there's no assholes. Like, I've vetted everybody, and I've met all these people over the course of 10 and a half years. This is not it's because I was doing business coaching, and I've filtered through all these people I've done coaching with over the years to come with a group that I would invite to something like this.
Wayne Herring00:20:09 - 00:20:13
Yes. Finding people, connecting them, putting them in the right place has value, which is what you're
Dan Pincus00:20:13 - 00:20:25
It has a lot of value. Now the issue comes down to is you just don't wanna be too greedy. Otherwise, people may be like, you know. Sure. But you you deserve a margin. The question is, you know, a reasonable margin.
Wayne Herring00:20:25 - 00:20:46
I've worked through it. Yeah. And I guess, you know, you're bringing up that's the thing that's out there through. And I I think I've worked through that part of it. Is that life is a lifestyle business okay? Yes. If I were to read every I believe everything I see on social media, I would think I'm a loser because I'm not charging, like, big money, and that's not true at all.
Dan Pincus00:20:46 - 00:20:51
It's not true at all. And quite honestly, a lot of people lie on social media, so you don't even know what's true and what's not true.
Wayne Herring00:20:51 - 00:20:53
Right. Right. Right. Rented Jets.
Dan Pincus00:20:53 - 00:21:01
And and the reason they lie on social media is because they assume that if, hey. If I show that I'm so successful and so great, they're all gonna wanna be with me or be like me. Right?
Wayne Herring00:21:01 - 00:21:02
Yeah.
Dan Pincus00:21:02 - 00:21:09
But the reality is is you gotta be the only person you have to please is yourself. The only person you have to impress is yourself. Don't worry about anybody else. Yeah.
Wayne Herring00:21:09 - 00:21:15
Man, thanks for spending this time with me. Like, I just I really enjoyed you, and this was fun to Yeah.
Dan Pincus00:21:15 - 00:21:15
My pleasure.
