Wayne Herring
00:00:0000:00:05
Hey, business builders. We're joined today by Melissa Conteer. I have to get used to the saying.
Melissa Kontir
00:00:0500:00:06
Yeah.
Wayne Herring
00:00:0600:00:21
Last name. Yeah. The founder of TCB promotions and also a mom, awesome liver of life, creating her life intentionally. Melissa, it's good to have you on season 2 of The Business Builder Way.
Melissa Kontir
00:00:2200:00:29
Thank you, Wayne. Good to be here and hanging out with you. Yeah. Come tier. It's, Frontier. It's different for me to come tier.
Wayne Herring
00:00:3000:00:55
For sure. Hey, so we're using the episodes this season to episodes this season to help people who are considering joining the group to know who our members are and also when people join to get to know you a little bit faster. So This is your story, and your story is a good one. And could you share with us who you are, a bit about business, a bit about what you're creating in the world, what you're building in the world.
Melissa Kontir
00:00:5600:01:35
Yeah. Sure. So a little bit of my background is I'm from Northern New Jersey, And I grew up in a small town that's really trendy now. It's Hoboken, but it wasn't that when I grew up. When I grew up, it was, Influx of a lot of immigrants, a lot of Germans, Irish, Italians, a lot of first and second generation. We were 2nd generation. And so we came from a lot of hardworking families that do a lot of that kinda labor type work. So I was raised in an environment that Taught me the value of hard work and self sufficiency and just making sure that you were a contributing person to society.
Melissa Kontir
00:01:3600:02:00
And you took care of your family and friends, and that was just a lot of the good values that were instilled in me at that early age. So College wasn't really something anyone in my family did. It wasn't just on their radar. It wasn't in their bandwidth. So when I went off to college, it Kind of odd for my family. You only went to college if you were gonna be a doctor or lawyer, something like that. Went to college, got my degree in advertising. Had a great professor.
Melissa Kontir
00:02:0000:02:44
Pointed me in the right direction, and I got a job selling promotional advertising, branded merchandise not far from my home in Englewood. I was there for 10 years, and she taught me a lot. She taught me a lot about business, a lot about promotional products, of course. I worked really hard, and we did a lot of business together. And then it became time due to conflicts of personalities, who I stood for as a person versus who she stood for as a person just was no longer jiving. And so I decided to start my own company. And my mission was to sell promotional products to customers and clients and have a difference of approach, And that was making sure that the promotional item you had had some type of purpose behind it. It could be simple But impactful.
Melissa Kontir
00:02:4500:03:33
As simple as a decal that you put on a water bottle, but making sure that you slow down and Make sure that the design was nice or that it was waterproof, whatever that simple might be. And so the really elaborate things like custom floaties for a pool party that had your Your mascot floating in the pool, holding all the cups of the attendees. So really ran the gamut of what we did, but making sure that it was purposeful. Yes. For eco related purposes, but more to elevate the industry. I just really didn't wanna Give a giveaway for the sake of giving a giveaway. You know, if it doesn't make sense, if it didn't have a reason, it just didn't it wasn't something I I help my clients to Pause and think about it. And the other major reason was I really wanted to impact the lives of my staff.
Melissa Kontir
00:03:3400:04:07
I understood very intimately from working with the woman I worked with for 10 years how much of an impact a boss can have on their staff, Whether that be treating them with respect, giving them work life balance flexibility, pulling out what's good in them and highlighting those and exploring that. And so that's what I build. I'm continuing to build here as a business where we do promotional products programs with purpose and passion And where my staff is something I really pour into often, spending time with them, listening to them, and really caring about their growth and their success.
Wayne Herring
00:04:0900:04:11
So I tend to ask questions from gut feel.
Melissa Kontir
00:04:1200:04:13
Yep. Where else?
Wayne Herring
00:04:1300:04:28
Right? So there are 2 things came up on what you just said. 1 is The 2nd most famous entrepreneur I know from Hoboken is the Cake Boss. Yeah, buddy. You're the first, but They're the 2nd. Right? Do you know the Cake Boss?
Melissa Kontir
00:04:2900:04:48
So my sister went was in his grade. My oldest sister was buddies, and he he went to our school. And he was a Cool kid. And we all hung out with Carlos. Like, Carlos was where we all got our birthday cakes, like, all the time. And to this day, if you show an identification That says you're from Hoboken, you don't wait on the line. Really? Yeah. No.
Melissa Kontir
00:04:4800:05:02
So he's still got that Like I was talking about in the beginning, we grew up in this really close knit environment, small 1 square mile town. You took care of your own. You worked hard. So he still says, If you go there and you show an ID that says Hoboken, you jump the line.
Wayne Herring
00:05:0300:05:09
So if the if there were a reality TV show about TCB promotions, and what what what kind of stuff would go on?
Melissa Kontir
00:05:1100:05:43
That's a funny question. Let's see. I would think that you would see us Working with our clients to come up with some clever ideas and come up with some stuff that maybe they weren't thinking of. I would definitely highlight the programs that were extremely successful. Yeah. There would be some times where you probably would see us Dealing with customers that maybe wait till the last minute to order their products. It's a problem that we face a lot. You know, sometimes promotional products are the Done right are the the thing people really remember about an event.
Melissa Kontir
00:05:4300:05:46
But sometimes when you're planning it, it might be the last thing you think about.
Wayne Herring
00:05:4600:05:47
Right. Like, okay.
Melissa Kontir
00:05:4700:05:57
See that You'd see us maybe, like, if FedEx like, the funds the order? Yeah. The drama. Right? Like, begging the FedEx guy to
Wayne Herring
00:05:5800:06:52
It actually seems not that, of course, I know you, fairly well and know your business fairly well from having you be in our groups and getting to hear about the journey and having been in your office, and you lit up when you started talking about the floaty in the pool and how it would have drinks and everybody. I love, and now you're lighting up for those who are only listening, but not watching like the smile and the enthusiasm. You love this stuff and you love creating these moments of joy And, it, it is like the kick boss in a, in a sense, and people come to you and they have a vision and they want to create something and then you're kind of working with it and you're getting it out and Then sure, like there's last minute deliveries. I know that you got these amazing water bottles to Buddy Teczynski for his Peak Integrative Med launch, and Sure. He should have planned earlier, but the people you work with, we just tend to not do that. And then we're like, oh, crap. And then you surprise and delight by getting these things there that make everybody
Melissa Kontir
00:06:5200:07:15
hero, and I love that. Yeah. To your point, yeah, I light up because think about you give someone a gift That shows you thought about them or that it brings you to an emotion or reminds you of the event. Like, those water bottles for Buddy, they're great, and they save Plastic. That's wonderful. You they make sure you're hydrated. All the things that he probably stands for. Right? Hydration and health and wellness.
Melissa Kontir
00:07:1500:07:35
It's his company. That's his business. But what they'll remember mostly, that event. That event where he handed them out. It was community. He had people coming from different companies. He took an opportunity To showcase other companies that had like mindedness. And so the bottle reminds you of That feeling.
Wayne Herring
00:07:3500:07:36
Nice.
Melissa Kontir
00:07:3600:07:39
That's a totally deep promotional talk, but that's just what I'm gonna
Wayne Herring
00:07:4000:07:58
That makes sense to me. That's very visceral. You're right. When I pick up that bottle, which I was using it yesterday. I do, I totally think of him and I think of that day when I actually purchased the bottle. So he sold promotional items, high quality promotional items, And you're right. It totally does bring about a feeling. That's neat.
Melissa Kontir
00:07:5800:08:39
Yeah. I think those are the most successful programs When it brings about a feeling or when it reminds you of where you were, that's why I wanna be careful working on my messaging As we grow, right, we're always working in business builders, and we're meeting each other. And I'm and I'm working with Kim, one of the builders, which is one of the best things I love about being in business builders is, Yes. Time with you and growth in myself, but also the relationships that I'm making that I would say that was a hidden gem. I know you told me About that when you first met, you're like, here's some of the value. Here's where you're gonna grow. And and I heard you, but I get it now. Like, I I get so much value from the relationships.
Melissa Kontir
00:08:3900:09:01
And so Kim and I have been doing a lot of marketing work And a lot of the conversations we're having now about promotional products, and you say I light up. It's true. I think it's the why That really drives me. And when so they were having a pool party. Let's talk about that alligator real quick. They called up and they wanted the Jacuzzis to cover the cans. And that's great because Sure. You want a cold drink.
Melissa Kontir
00:09:0200:09:31
And those are fun. But I'm like, tell me more. And so he's like, well, we're getting together down in Miami, and we're gonna do an alligator. And we're all gonna be in the pool, and we're gonna have cans, and then I want them to have them covered. And I'm like, so what if we did A giant alligator with cup holders and alligator and the, like, the silence. And I'm always mildly scared That they're gonna be like, what in the world is wrong with this lady? Just sell me my koozies. And I will. I'll sell you koozies all day.
Melissa Kontir
00:09:3100:09:48
But He's like, you're kidding me. You could have that in time, and we did. And that's what we did. And the logo is on the alligator's stomach. And I don't even know, but I was So so, yeah, I do light up. I light up when I see that moment where it matters and where what you did had impact.
Wayne Herring
00:09:4900:09:55
I think the title of this episode is going to be I'll sell you koozies all day, but an alligator would be better.
Melissa Kontir
00:09:5600:09:58
I think it's a great title.
Wayne Herring
00:09:5900:10:00
You said it.
Melissa Kontir
00:10:0000:10:02
That's right. An alligator, a custom alligator.
Wayne Herring
00:10:0300:10:23
But a custom alligator would be better. Well, so thanks. I didn't even know a little bit about the education background. There you are, and you start this company. When did you start your company? How long has TCB, been in business? Where are you? Give us just a little bit of the logistics so people could paint a picture of Yeah. Sure. What this is.
Melissa Kontir
00:10:2400:10:59
So I dabbled with the company while I was still working with my other place because I was hired at my other place to sell Exclusively to 1 major organization. It was American Express, and that was my job. I was to sell American Express all day, every day, and nothing else. Without getting into detail, if I were to bring in other clients at that time, it really just got taken from me and then given to someone else. That's a story for another time. So at that point, I'm like, well, if I have these other obligations and these maybe I have this company. So I did. I started a company on the side.
Melissa Kontir
00:10:5900:11:39
Did just about 50,000 a year in business with, essentially, friends and family. And then it started to grow And so did the American Express business. So I was both were, like, booming. I was doing well with both because I'm really, like, conscious to make sure that what I was doing on the side was truly on the side. And so then when my daughter was born, Mymetto, she's 12 now, I decided to leave and begin to start to grow My own company. And I would say the tipping point was my best friend, Rafaela, tragically died of an aneurysm. I got a phone call, Meta was 2 months old, and her sister's like, I have really bad news. Rafaela died.
Melissa Kontir
00:11:3900:11:55
And I'm like I was waiting for her to it was like a cruel joke. And at that moment, I was like, oh my gosh. I gotta do this now. I gotta move. I gotta get out of here. And so that tragedy Was the tipping point of something brewing all along anyway. But, you know, we have that turning point. And I was like, here I go.
Melissa Kontir
00:11:5500:12:28
I'm gonna go. And I'm gonna do this. I'm gonna start my own company. And so I did. She passed in February. And by December, I started the company exclusively, left the other organization, and started this in 2011. And so I worked out of the house for 6 years and was doing about $400,000 in sales at that time, Doing really well, but it was just me. And I had some help coming in on occasion and working with some QuickBooks support through the QuickBooks platforms.
Melissa Kontir
00:12:2800:13:06
And then I decided to move into the space I'm in now, which is near East Stroudsburg. And I started with 1 office, the office I'm in now. And then I continued to rent and sublet additional rooms over the course of the past 7 years. And now we're staff of 8 8 employees, 2 virtuals. That's 10. And now we're doing between 23,000,000 on average in promotional products, and we do about 5 to 600 transactions a year, and we're working with some great resorts in the area. Kalahari, we're majoring in tourism, our big Hospitality. We do a lot of hotel work, a lot of travel.
Melissa Kontir
00:13:0600:13:19
University work is big, and we continue to grow. Think and so where we are now today is continuing to carve out those markets and focus on those markets and expand and and say, what else? What other markets do we wanna work with?
Wayne Herring
00:13:2000:13:32
Okay, and on the business, and as you're in the business builders program, and you're in the Friday group with some other powerful women business builders, So where you at now, and what's going on?
Melissa Kontir
00:13:3200:14:02
So where I'm at is we had a season of immense change. For the past 12 months, I had the most change ever in my organization in terms of we had a tragic loss. Unfortunately, one of our older staff members passed, Our bookkeeper, which is, as you can imagine, was completely unexpected. That caused a ripple effect. We're we're now back To where we need to be and have a replacement in place, but that was a lot. We had 3 staff members leave really close together. I won't go into the why. Looking back, I can maybe understand the why at the time.
Melissa Kontir
00:14:0200:14:26
If anybody wants the details, I could tell you another time, but just keep it short and sweet. I think it was just a growth pattern. As I was Putting in more benchmarks to grow the company. A lot of what I learned is through through business builders and the books we read. They didn't want to do What it, potentially, was going to take to get to the next level. And that's okay. They joined when I was here. And then when I elevated to here, they weren't the right Team members anymore.
Melissa Kontir
00:14:2600:14:56
And I've learned through business builders and everything I've read and talked to all every by Friday powerhouse women is that was okay. So we're building again in a sense. And I'm learning through all of the things we're exposed to through business builders. I'm kinda not alone. Right? So you kind of feel like, oh my gosh. Things are going bad. Well, it's not really that abnormal to have ebbs and flows. And so now I think I'm in an exploratory phase where I'm saying, okay.
Melissa Kontir
00:14:5600:15:21
This is what happened. This is the vision of where it's going. And I'm learning to closely look at processes, and I'm learning to Ask a lot more questions and put in a lot more benchmarks to understand things. So to summarize, I think I'm in a really strong growth phase, But it just doesn't always feel so good
Wayne Herring
00:15:2100:15:21
Mhmm.
Melissa Kontir
00:15:2100:15:51
Because I feel like I'm out of my element of norm, But there's a small, still soft voice inside of me. It might be the business builder's help and all the nice Relationships I've gotten here, like, that's something that feels right too. I don't know where the path would take me right now Yeah. So that feels a little bit Wonky, but I'm sure wherever I land, it's gonna be a lot better than where I was.
Wayne Herring
00:15:5200:17:29
Yeah, I love that. So, again, I think from the outside looking in, entrepreneurs, business owners look at folks who are at a certain place and it looks like, wow, it's just, I guess it's just been steady linear growth from wherever they started to here. And, why is it that they knew exactly what they were doing, and they got there, and it was a straight path? But I'm not Sure. And sometimes I'm second guessing myself, and the vision isn't completely clear. What's wrong with me? And as you said, you've realized through conversations that everybody in the group, to varying degrees, at times, goes through that stuff, and that's The reality, what happens, I even read, you know, I read Steve Jobs' the biography by Walter Isaacson recently, and, and here we see this guy who, you know, I guess we all have, we don't know the truth of the whole guy's life, but We know that maybe there were things that were hard in personal life, like all of us, right? Yeah. But it looks like, wow, look at that. I mean, the dude invented the iPad and the iPhone and the iPad and wait list, you know, Mac computer, like, but really, you read the book and he got basically fired from his own company, went out to go start a new computer company, and was very clear that he knew what he was doing, and that thing kind of dissolved and didn't go so well, but then went to Pixar and things did go well. It sounds to me like a life and an entrepreneurial life, where there were lots of periods of uncertainty and the perennial life, where there were lots of periods of uncertainty and changing and trying this, whatever.
Wayne Herring
00:17:2900:17:49
So yeah, you're certainly not alone. And we talked off camera and I was like, this is really a cool spot that you're in, where you're like gathering this data and looking at who you are, and You got married recently. Just had your birthday. The flowers are behind you. You got 2 children, young children. You mentioned, Meadow at 12. Right?
Melissa Kontir
00:17:4900:17:50
Yeah. Like, and
Wayne Herring
00:17:5100:18:17
yeah. 10 and 12, and you're very involved with them, and you really are active in your community and, Chamber of Commerce, and I see it in your photos. It's not just that you're there to go pick up new opportunities to create custom promotions, like Alligators, you really participate and you're contributing to your community in many ways. So, yeah, Got a lot going on. I'll stop gushing about what I see from the outside. I see.
Melissa Kontir
00:18:1700:18:54
Well no. And I think what has happened through our time In business builders and all of the things that it offers is just like you said, I listen to the stories Of other business owners, and you have these major moments where you're like, you're kidding me. Right? You're so successful, and you're afraid You're unsure of yourself? So I'm internalizing these thoughts as I'm listening to these people, these business builders. And it doesn't change how I feel. I don't feel less unsure of myself. It's not some magic. But I feel in good company. Like, oh, Cool.
Melissa Kontir
00:18:5500:19:12
You're messed up. I'm messed up. So we're not messed up. Nobody's really messed up. But, you know, like, you read the book about Steve Jobs. You're like, Really? You just see this we project what we think. So I think I'm uncomfortable, but I'm okay. It's like when we were kids and you went on a roller coaster.
Melissa Kontir
00:19:1200:19:27
Like, there was something inside of you that was like, what are you doing? Get off. This is gonna scare you. You're gonna get sick. You stayed on because you were like, oh, it's okay. So I feel like that with my business. Like, I'm uncomfortable, but I'm gonna be okay. Then I'm on the ride and we're gonna have some fun. And maybe I'll get sick.
Melissa Kontir
00:19:2800:19:35
But it's gonna be okay. Well yeah. And and I just said my business is gonna make me sick. I didn't mean it like that.
Wayne Herring
00:19:3600:20:17
You're what happens for you and other people that I work with, what I see is you go through periods where it's like an artist and and you're creating, and you've got a canvas, and you've got paints, right? So that's the stuff that, you know, isn't completely certain, but what's going on at the same time is, is all the fundamentals in the business are right, and you, and Yes. The serving of the clients is right. There so there's this wash, rinse, repeat. It's working. Ka chunk, ka chunk, ka chunk, and it's it's all the other, the growth things that look like a canvas and paints, and we're not always sure what we're gonna put up there. Right?
Melissa Kontir
00:20:1700:20:48
But that analogy. It reminds me of something I told my kids when I was dealing with emotions. I told my daughters I said, when you're a certain age, you have a few colors on your palate to to draw your out. You know, it's blue, red, but, like, just CMYK. And then as you get older, the palette gets more paint colors and the emotions and feelings get more blended. And you start to have, like, all these colors to create. And so that's kind of the way my business was. In the beginning, it was just red, yellow, blue, primary, serve the clients, Ship the orders, build them, but cash the checks.
Melissa Kontir
00:20:4800:20:55
And as I grow, it's like more colors, more colors, more colors, and I'm, like, feeling that. So I appreciate that artist's reference.
Wayne Herring
00:20:5600:20:57
Yeah. For sure.
Melissa Kontir
00:20:5700:21:03
By the way, you can do branded palettes and branded paint I could brand you up a beautiful paintbrush.
Wayne Herring
00:21:0400:21:06
Awesome. That's good to know.
Melissa Kontir
00:21:0600:21:14
The 4 color process details around the paints. We could ship them out direct. This is a plug. This is a plug.
Wayne Herring
00:21:1400:21:40
In a special box. Good. You should plug. And and in fact, in November, you're gonna join us and be our virtual campfire guest because Everybody always loves whenever you start getting items out and you start creating and get excited because people see what they could do in their world, with the things that you offer. So, I can't wait for that session. So, we're gonna wrap up. Two questions. 1 is, tell us a little bit about who you are when you're not working.
Wayne Herring
00:21:4000:21:56
We've talked about children and, but in business builders, we integrate business and life. And So who are you? I know and that's a deep question. Right? Like, we could take hours, but just tell people a little bit about who you are and what you do outside of business.
Melissa Kontir
00:21:5700:22:25
Okay. So I would say I am a lover of outdoors. Anything I can do outdoors, I will do it. I'm the 1 person in the house that loves a good blackout living in the Poconos because then I get to cook everything outside. On my grill. So I love to be outside. I love to go for walks outside, hikes outside. When I bought my property in the Poconos, I bought one of the extra Acres just so nobody could build too close to me so I can walk around on my property.
Melissa Kontir
00:22:2500:22:41
And I do. I walk around. I'm a Jersey girl. We don't know anything about it. But now I'm 13 years in, so I'm here. I bought a saw, I cut some wood, and I filled a fire. And sometimes I'm out there by myself and I'm told totally cool with that. I love a good outdoor music.
Melissa Kontir
00:22:4100:23:05
So anywhere I could find somebody playing live music, I'm there no matter what kind of music it is. Live music is something I follow and I love. I love Jeep life. I recently got a Jeep. It was a dream of mine for a really long time. And so, I got a 2010 Jeep that I have Constantly with the top down. I drive it if it's snowing, raining. Like, I I have just recently started off roading, so that's been really fun.
Melissa Kontir
00:23:0500:23:30
And we go to these events where all the jeeps follow each other. It's totally corny and awesome, and I love it. And then I'm a really, really big Volunteer at my church. So I teach Sunday school, which is probably one of the joys of my life. I love to teach. If I could, I would teach every Sunday, but my pastor says I can't because I have to be upstairs in service sometimes. But that's you see me light up again. Like, that's my joy.
Melissa Kontir
00:23:3000:23:57
I love teaching those kids. I love you know, I was a kid, and I went to Sunday school. I don't think Sorry, Sunday school teachers, but I don't think I learned anything. I walked out of there just bored and confused with a coloring page. And I don't. I do really a lot of games and It's just such an amazing thing when I see them get it. And then when I go upstairs, the kids that have grown out of Sunday school that are older, like, big giant hugs to me. Some of them have written me letters.
Melissa Kontir
00:23:5700:24:06
Parents have told me thank you for the growth of my kids in your Sunday school. So, Yeah. Those are some things about me that I, that I really love.
Wayne Herring
00:24:0600:24:35
Awesome. No, I, yeah, I love seeing the pictures of you and the students at Bible school over the summer on Facebook. And yeah, you were lit up when you were doing those things. Last question is for people that would be new to business builders or, and this applies to business owners who might join another group and they just listen to our podcast too. What advice would you give somebody to make the most of being in a community of entrepreneurs like this.
Melissa Kontir
00:24:3500:24:50
You said it, so I'm gonna steal your words. You said be in coaching. That really spoke to me. The tagline of my church is we meet you where you are. And I think business builders does that really well. Right? So not everybody can join the fires the, like, the what do do you call the Wednesday? What are you doing today at 2:30?
Wayne Herring
00:24:5100:24:53
Oh, the virtual campfire.
Melissa Kontir
00:24:5300:25:05
Yeah. Uh-huh. Fireside chats. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Not everybody can come to every one of those, and maybe not everybody can do this or do that. But I think there's, like You have the Facebook page.
Melissa Kontir
00:25:0500:25:45
You have the Monday what's on your goal list? What what's this on Friday? You have sorry that I don't know the names of your cool stuff. No. It's fine. But you have all these things that can meet a business owner where they are. Right? So you don't have time to call in, but you have time to read What somebody wrote or you have time to listen to the podcast in the car. So, yeah, you make it really easy to Find what works for you to get in some type of coaching and some type of growth mindset for the business. And I think it's absolutely necessary. Looking back, I never felt more healthy in my mind than since I've had the time with you and business builders.
Melissa Kontir
00:25:4500:26:05
I just don't. I still feel the feelings of, am I doing it right? Is this right? Is it wrong? But I don't feel I don't I don't know how to sound corny, but I don't feel the pain. It's just kinda like, let's deal with it. What can we do? Let's talk about it. Let's look at it. Let's deal. It's just It's just been really great.
Wayne Herring
00:26:0700:26:47
You've used the word corny 2 or 3 times about Jeeps, about the alligator, and just now the feeling, you know, it strikes me, Melissa, like sometimes we have a catchword like that. And I had a, my, a pastor who I played baseball with growing up, Josh Ott, and we were due for breakfast. But What we've realized is when we say something to each other that starts with, this might sound stupid, but whatever comes after that is some of the good stuff or or a source of joy and Life. So this might sound corny, but life's kinda corny. You know? I don't know where the good stuff is kinda corny. So that's
Melissa Kontir
00:26:4700:27:07
your mark. You know what I think about myself? I think that I have no problem sharing my truth, and I'm vulnerable. And I feel I choose to be vulnerable and share my authentic with the world. I feel like there's really no other way. I don't have a different side of me. I don't have multiple sides. It's just how much I choose to share at what pace. So you're right.
Melissa Kontir
00:27:0700:27:12
I think I said this might sound corny. It probably might tell as to when I'm about to be vulnerable.
Wayne Herring
00:27:1200:27:22
Yeah. That's awesome. Well, thanks for showing up today here, and thank you, for being part of our community and such a wonderful contributor. We appreciate you.
Melissa Kontir
00:27:2200:27:23
Thank you, Wayne.
