Pay it Forward feat. Eric Pauly

Wayne Herring00:00:00 - 00:00:40
Hey, business builders. A few years ago, I was sitting in my truck, was right when I started my business, and I got a phone call from somebody who found me on LinkedIn. It was a guy named Eric Pauley. And at that time, I was really focused on how to hire stronger salespeople. In fact, I had a little offshoot of Herring Coach called stronger salespeople.com, which is no longer in existence. But Eric called me because He was leaving a big major roofing company and was going off to start his own roofing business and was looking for how to hire the best salespeople using the most relevant tools at that time. He and I had a long conversation. I enjoyed it.
Wayne Herring00:00:40 - 00:01:41
I loved who this guy was, what he was up to. We ended up not actually working together at that time, but we likely have stayed in touch over the years as he's built and grown his roofing company Patriot. And in today's episode, you'll hear about how he came from the corporate world, how he was always a guy focused on goals and learning and self development and sharing that with other people. And he he took that desire to learn and grow in the corporate world and learned how to apply that to business. He tells us how by reading The 4 Hour Workweek, he knew that it was possible to build a business that didn't require him, like, on it and in it all the time. So that was his vision. And what he's done and what you'll hear is he's built a business that is very sustainable, and it is a nice size, and it contributes to his family life, and how he wants to live. In fact, he just built his dream home, which he dreamed up back when he was deployed with the army.
Wayne Herring00:01:41 - 00:02:34
You'll hear about that today, how he sketched it in his book and now how it has become reality. And so the business that he has built There's Tim and his family. His lifestyle allows him to hit live out in Idaho, in the woods where he enjoys hunting and being outdoors and going on adventures, but it's also helped him start a nonprofit that has thrived. And that nonprofit is all for disabled veterans friends who are coming back and who would like to get outdoors and experience a variety of things. It's often hunting, but At other times, it's other forms of outdoor recreation. And so Eric, just was working on a ranch property and cabins in Texas to add to this, and they've served, like, thousands of veterans. So this is a great story of a business builder who is integrating all aspects of an abundant life. He's a true creator.
Wayne Herring00:02:34 - 00:02:39
I can't wait to share Eric Pauli with you. So here we go. Welcome to
Wayne Herring00:02:39 - 00:03:18
the business builder way podcast, where we help business builders grow leadership skills and wisdom and stay grounded through business builder hero So let's get after it. Hey, business builders. I'm joined today by Eric Pauley, and Eric is a is a business builder for to her and a life builder and a creator, and he's living intentionally. And I just saw that Eric Ken built his dream house and moved into it, and that prompted me to say, wow. This would be a good time to have your story featured on the business builder way. So, Eric, I'm so glad that you were willing to spend some time with us and join us today.
Eric Pauly00:03:18 - 00:03:20
Sure. Yeah. Thanks for having me.
Wayne Herring00:03:20 - 00:04:23
And and we're just gonna we're gonna jump in to your story, Eric, at at the point of of now, present time. And, one of the things we do here on the Business Builder Way podcast is help to get out into the world what I call hero stories and, you and and heroes in your world. I know we're gonna get into some of the things that you're doing, like, with your nonprofit. But even before you were able to start to build that nonprofit, you are a hero, and you have created something in your business from nothing, from from an idea, from experiences, and things that you had done just like your house right there. So I I'd like to drop in and have you tell us a little bit about this harmonized, harmonized. Maybe maybe sometimes it doesn't always feel harmonized, but you've really integrated business, nonprofit, family, house. So can you tell us a bit about, where are you coming to us from, and what is it that you're building?
Eric Pauly00:04:24 - 00:05:37
Yeah. And I think, well, first of all, I'd say I don't know that Anything I've done is really any is extraordinary in any way other than I just follow through, to be honest. I mean, It's I think everyone has the opportunities to do the type of sort of things that I've done. I think it's just a matter of, you know, wanting something bad enough and just not quitting, you know, that kind of thing. So I don't know that it's anything heroic by any by any means or standards, but, I think one of the things in my life that's kinda led me to he mentioned, you know, the work and the family life and, you the different goals with the business and the nonprofit and that is just I've always had this internal, I guess, need for balance. And I feel when one thing gets too prominent, there's a there's kind of a stress level that builds on me that I feel like I have to offset it with with the other priorities in my life, which can be difficult at times if you think of it in terms of the here and now because If you don't focus on priorities, then they don't get done. So you can't obviously do everything halfway. Otherwise, nothing gets done.
Eric Pauly00:05:37 - 00:06:25
But I think of it more in terms of a long term type balance, whereas, you know, if you have a good plan and you're looking for it and you're actually Setting your goals and and you have an end goal in mind, then your life may be off balance for that period in time, but it's to get to a point when you accomplish your goal that you can regain that balance. So, and that's just kind of the way I've always looked at things, and that's the way and it's not not a perfect system. Obviously, there's always things you're like, I should have done more of this Sure. I've done more of that. But when you have the the main goals in your life set and you pursue those like, this house took me, you know, almost 2 years of Daily work for probably 17 months. I was going at 10 to 16 hours a day. You know? So that's obviously not a balanced life. And it wasn't the plan in the beginning, honestly.
Eric Pauly00:06:25 - 00:06:59
The plan was to have somebody do it, but it was one of those things where that kinda fell apart and I couldn't find Couldn't find the qualified help I needed that would do it the right way, so I kinda just took it over, because that's only what I saw getting to that goal without They're all falling apart. So, but I guess that's kind of the root of everything I do is just trying to keep some sort of balance, As the end goal with what you're doing between, you know, the secular and the personal life and family and, you know, community work and nonprofit and that type of thing.
Wayne Herring00:07:00 - 00:07:30
Balance could be the a noun. Right? A state to be achieved, Or balance could be a verb, where you're a little bit over this way and a little bit over that way, and it sounds like that's that's how you roll. So what is your business? Let let's, like, kinda parse it out a little bit. Sure. Started a business in 2017. Mhmm. And and so what is that business, and what does that look like today? You're gonna keep building, but what does it look like today?
Eric Pauly00:07:30 - 00:08:10
Yeah. So I started Patriot Roofing. So let's Take a step backwards. I worked for a big national roofing corporation for years, like 18 years, and built a couple of offices for them, in the region in the northwest and intermountain west and really just started becoming really frustrated with how that Kinda corporate mentality, and I've seen it in other businesses as well. But it's just numbers driven. It's everything's run by a spreadsheet. You know, it's People are commodities and, you know, you just kinda squeeze everything you can out of whatever resources you have and move on to the next thing. And and I just saw it as It seemed like a huge waste.
Eric Pauly00:08:10 - 00:09:14
You know? I mean and it was a big, very successful company, but it's like you're squeezing these people down to nothing And then discarding them and starting all over again. And I'm like, it's just, one, it's it just doesn't my internal morals and stuff, it doesn't follow with what, You know, I would like how I would like to treat people, but the other side of it is it's like, that company couldn't understand how much money was being wasted By taking someone that was already doing their job well, just treating them a little bit better, you gain more dollars than you do discarding that guy and then starting the process all over again and, you know, 1 year onboarding to figure out if they can even do the job and then takes 2 years to get back to where you were with the other guy. You know? Mhmm. And Sure. And so I tried to kinda Come with different approaches and I wrote kind of business plans for my regions and said this is a tactic I wanna take as a very kinda old school company, You know? Single ownership, 19 sixties management mentality, that type of thing. We're like, they should be they should be grateful to be working here. You know? That kind of thing. Like, that's just not the way things work anymore.
Wayne Herring00:09:15 - 00:09:15
Right.
Eric Pauly00:09:16 - 00:09:40
So at at the end of it, I basically said, look. I I have 3 options. You know, I can you know, I was working I was traveling every week. I was working all the time. You know, I was away from the family lot. I'm like, this isn't sustainable, from that aspect, but I basically looked at and said, I can either because I was fighting all the time. You know? I was like, They're telling me you need to do this, this, and that. I'm like, you haven't even been to this region.
Eric Pauly00:09:40 - 00:10:23
You haven't been to that office. You don't know that individual. That's not gonna work. You know? And so I'm fighting with, You know, the VPs and and the corporate office all the time, and I'm like, I can either just keep fighting, which drives me crazy and waste a ton of my time because I spent take part of my percent of my time fighting and not being effective, or I can be like, the company had a lot of that middle management that was just yes men. You know? They just Whatever you say is what I repeat, and if it falls apart, it falls apart, and I just doesn't matter going to the next thing, which just completely disengages you from everything you're doing, or you can just quit. You know? I mean, you can leave that behind and start something else. And so at the end, that's the decision I made. So And, really, there's a lot of valuable lessons.
Eric Pauly00:10:23 - 00:11:06
I mean, I learned a lot in that organization about how to build a, an office in a business, how to scale, which I think is Probably one of the hardest things that entrepreneurs and small business owners deal with. They don't have that experience on scaling. It really kinda can screw up their business early on. So started that business, learned what not to do, somewhat to do, And, really just started out from the beginning with a process that I kinda designed myself just to fill the needs that I believe were there And also how to really treat employees and customers different in running a business based on, those relationships and not just on the bottom line.
Wayne Herring00:11:07 - 00:11:10
And that that is Patriot Roofing and Construction. Right?
Eric Pauly00:11:10 - 00:11:13
Correct. Yep. Yeah. That's Patriot Roofing and Construction.
Wayne Herring00:11:14 - 00:11:38
Started in May of 2017. And so a little bit over a little bit over, well, five and a half years, right, roughly. And what what does the company look like now in terms of where do you operate? What kind of probably shouldn't ask too many questions. Right? But where where do you operate? What kind of work do you do? And about how many employees do you have? What does the business look like?
Eric Pauly00:11:39 - 00:12:03
Sure. And so we operate out of Draper, Utah, and we do work all over Utah. We do some up in Idaho now because I live up here In Southeast Idaho, that's where I built my house. So I have my business down there, and I live up here. So we've done some work up here a little bit too. I mean, it kinda depends on the market. And we're, you know, $3,000,000 last year. You know, probably be a little bit less this year.
Eric Pauly00:12:04 - 00:12:50
And this is kinda, I guess, where my business philosophy differs from a lot of entrepreneurs and small business owners as I look at it like I don't necessarily I don't wanna build an empire. I don't need a $10,000,000 shop. I don't need all the overhead that comes with it. You know? I I kinda learned that fine line when I was with the other organization on you know, you get to a certain point. You can operate up to a certain level with kinda minimal overhead, minimal people, which, to be honest, people are your are your biggest liability and your biggest asset. But, it's just the stuff that you have to deal with. It's a lot of the time suck, you know, when you the more people you get. And so I built a a core of really good people and pay them really well and value their input and their ideas and let them interact things.
Eric Pauly00:12:50 - 00:13:41
But I try to make most things Process driven to kinda handle 90% of the problems. In that way, it makes it easier for them to do their job. And then I put rewards in place for, You know, additional efforts and that type of thing, that benefit the company. So, I mean, I don't know that I'd really wanna get much bigger than that. I've kinda found you go to that 4 or $5,000,000, and you have to have kinda middle management, intermediate y stuff. And, you know, you look at, you know, if I'm doing If I'm doing $3,000,000 and making $500 a year, if I go to $5,000,000, I'm not making that same amount per million, you know, because you have to add that whole additional layer of overhead, Which the overhead is money, but it's also time. And so the way I built it now you know, years years ago, I I read, Tim Ferriss's book, The 4 hour work week. Mhmm.
Eric Pauly00:13:41 - 00:14:11
You know? I'm like, how can I translate that into something that I know? You know? And so when I built this business, it was really about that. It was like, okay. I need to find the people. I started like everyone else does. I did everything. You know, I worked my butt off, you know, ADR weeks. I did all that, but The goal was to do that and spend that time in the right places to put people in place that believed in what I was doing, believed in themselves, wanted to Take that level of responsibility to run the organization essentially for me. So and I do.
Eric Pauly00:14:11 - 00:15:00
I probably work less than 4 hours a week right now on Patriot. I have a really good operations manager and sales team. So I have 2 sales guys, an operations manager, a field supervisor kinda comes and goes depending on the times, and then 2 to 3 crews go on, to get that That revenue in that sweet spot, but it's kinda different in the organization, especially in residential roofing. You look a lot of these guys, you know, who go to some of these NRCA meetings from time to time, the National Roofing Contractors Association. And the guys that are at the meetings are the owners of the company, And they're talking about things that they are doing specifically on roofs and and ordering materials and I mean, they're still doing The day to day minutiae, the company, and they're successful, but
Wayne Herring00:15:00 - 00:15:00
Mhmm.
Eric Pauly00:15:01 - 00:15:32
You hear you you hear small business owners and contractors especially talk about how, You know, owning a business is you know, they run some ragged. They're doing 80 hours a week. They don't have time for anything else. You know? It's kind of the poor me type thing. It's like, well, it's on you because you're not you're not building a team to do that stuff for you. You know, you're being a business administrator, not a business owner. And so it's it's from the very beginning, I had that that goal in mind. That took me about a year to get to where I had good people in place where I could do that.
Wayne Herring00:15:32 - 00:16:19
It's interesting. One of the things I as you were saying that how you go to these meetings and people talk about all the work that they're doing, I think sometimes business Owners, founders, wear that as, like, a badge of honor, how busy they are, how heavy covered up they are. And it and you, I'm gonna be, like, kinda judgmental here in, in a good way, I hope. Mhmm. And for those not watching YouTube, but on the audible version, we're gonna talk a bit about, like, your military history, your your nonprofit, and you're an outdoors guy, And you're sitting in front of me. And for those not watching, you know, you're, like, kinda stereotypical, like, north northwest Idaho woodsman guy. You got this beard and Right. Help build a house yourself.
Wayne Herring00:16:19 - 00:16:41
So you're a, you know, what I would say, A competitive not com high performing person or a or a kinda tough guy, self sufficient, and yet you don't need to wear that as a badge of honor this whole busy like, you take great pride and that you built something with wonderful people that is is going and self sufficient and no
Eric Pauly00:16:41 - 00:16:41
no longer
Wayne Herring00:16:41 - 00:16:42
in busyness.
Eric Pauly00:16:42 - 00:17:24
Well and really what it is, I think, is I think people can't be truly honest with themselves. I think it's a big issue with society in general today. I'm not trying to judge people, but If you really self evaluate, but why are you doing that? Are you doing it for the badge of art for bragging rights? Are you doing it because, You know, you're in insecurity where you need to have that. Are you doing it because you don't have anything else in your life? And if you weren't doing it, then you'd feel lost. You know? It's kinda like the retirement syndrome. People work, you know, 20 years doing the same job for 8 or 10 hours a day, and then when they retire, they fall apart. Know, I feel like I don't have anything else outside of this. You know? So part of it is the a self reflection, I think.
Eric Pauly00:17:24 - 00:18:08
And I've never really had an issue with having Not enough stuff to do. I mean, I'll go all day. I mean, I there's plenty of stuff that that I have to do between hobbies and And work in the nonprofit and all that. So I've never had a shortage of of things to do, but it's a matter of, I guess, a self identity type of thing. And people identify themselves with something, and they can't let that go. Instead of looking at, well, if I had free time, what else what's the next step? Like, What could I be doing better or more or for myself, for my family, or community, or whatever? And they never get past that That led. They just kinda keep going on that on that track. But then it's funny because they get it's like a self identity, but then it's also something they complain about.
Eric Pauly00:18:08 - 00:18:37
You know? So So it kinda goes both ways. You know? It's like you're kinda it's you're in control. Right? It's not even if you own your own business. It's the same way if you work for someone. You know? It's You still have that control, and I worked for a big corporation for years, and I ran that that crazy schedule. But I also said this isn't This isn't long term what I wanna do. So everybody has the ability to change whether it's go to another corp organization that Fits your ideals or start your own company or or whatever. Nice.
Wayne Herring00:18:38 - 00:18:40
Ed, how old are you?
Eric Pauly00:18:41 - 00:18:46
Hold on. 46. Yeah. That one usually has to remind me.
Wayne Herring00:18:46 - 00:18:56
I I one time thought for a whole year that I was 37, I think. And then at my birthday, my wife told me that I was having my 37th, and I was like, you're right.
Eric Pauly00:18:56 - 00:18:57
I just got a
Wayne Herring00:18:57 - 00:19:00
I just got a year back. I got a
Eric Pauly00:19:00 - 00:19:04
I usually lose 1. I'm like, oh, I thought I was a year younger.
Wayne Herring00:19:04 - 00:19:05
Oh, the wrong way.
Eric Pauly00:19:05 - 00:19:11
It's just another day. Like, my wife, what do you wanna do with your birthday? And I'm like, it's just another day, and I just keep doing what we do.
Wayne Herring00:19:12 - 00:19:26
So 46, and you've mentioned children and your wife. So you've got a family. So alongside the business, you've got a family, and you're present with them. And as much as you wanna share, like, how old are they?
Eric Pauly00:19:27 - 00:19:53
Yeah. So I actually have I have 2 children that are my stepchildren, but, I married my wife when they were very young, so they've always been with us. So Yeah. You know, they're my kids. My daughter, she actually lives up here in south In Southeast Idaho, and and she's gonna be getting married this next summer, actually. And then my, stepson is is, in the navy right now. And then, we have 1 child together that's, here at home. He's in high school still.
Eric Pauly00:19:53 - 00:19:55
So he's a junior in high school.
Wayne Herring00:19:57 - 00:19:58
So 3 total, like
Eric Pauly00:19:58 - 00:20:01
Yep. Yeah. Awesome.
Wayne Herring00:20:01 - 00:20:11
So that that'll keep you busy too. And then, when did you start, When did you start the nonprofit? When did you, start doing Operation Pay It Forward?
Eric Pauly00:20:12 - 00:20:53
It was actually before I I left the other organization, so it was officially formed in, April of 2016. In 2015 is when I kinda decided, it's actually, it was the fall of 2014, And it was I remember it. Clearly, I was I do a lot of hunting. I do a lot of archery hunting and stuff like that. I love being out in nature. It kinda grounds me in it. You know, that free time and strategy lets you self reflect and kinda get through stuff with all the distractions. And I'd actually gotten chosen to do a, a hunt for this outdoor show.
Eric Pauly00:20:53 - 00:21:53
It was called, Outlanders, and so they selected me. The premise was that they find regular everyday people, and then they They sent an actual camera crew to follow them around and hunt and stuff like that, and they film it. It was just a single episode, but I did it up here in Southeast Idaho as a bear hunt. And I remember driving home and thinking, man, I'm just so lucky to be able to do this stuff as just a cool experience and just to be able to go out and hunt whenever I want to, you know, whenever I have free time, that kind of thing, and started thinking about and this was in 2014, the fall of 2014. Or, no, it was the spring of 2015. Sorry. Spring on. So 2015, and I'm at the same time, I'm seeing all this stuff on the news and all these guys coming back from Afghanistan and and Iraq just You know, so many IEDs, so many brain injuries, so many guys getting blown up, and and, you know, the medical advances that we have now compared to passports are great, Saving lives, but it also leaves a lot of mangled, you know, soldiers coming back and having to deal with that kind of thing.
Eric Pauly00:21:53 - 00:22:41
And to be quite honest, the the VA and and the government itself, I mean, they spend 1,000,000 and 1,000,000 of dollars training us to do our jobs, you know, to To be able to fight and overtake the enemy or to do your specific technical job or whatever. There's $0 for training you to become a civilian again And how to how to come back out of that. So Right. You know, I was just it it bothered me for a while in seeing you know, and hearing, you You know, the guys and gals are committing suicide, and, you know, they're losing way more over here than you get over there. And, you know, you it's just frustrating. It makes you angry. And, you know, I on that drive, I was like, you know, I can just sit here and be pissed off if this if I'm really this upset about this, which I am. I'm like, I can sit here and be pissed off or I can do about it.
Eric Pauly00:22:41 - 00:23:39
And so I just kinda came up with, you know, the things that I enjoy and the things that give me peace and And a the ability to reflect and that kind of thing, like hunting in the outdoors and that kind of stuff. I was like, well, I'm just gonna go find a veteran that needs something like this that's struggling, And I'll just get them out on a a hunt, and we'll we'll figure it out and spend some time and, you know, and One of the things you really miss from serving is the camaraderie. You know, you're with these individuals, the people in your unit day in, day out, 24 hours a day. A lot of times you're sleeping in a cot or a hole right next to them. You know? And then when somebody gets out, they're just poof, they're gone. You know? It's and then it's just Gone. You go from that entire support structure like your only support structure, really, and then it's just gone. So That camaraderie of just veterans being together in a place where you don't have the distractions, you don't have the anxiety of being in public, and All of things going on, that kind of stuff is just a huge benefit in itself.
Eric Pauly00:23:39 - 00:24:23
You know, whether you're we always talk about, like, with the nonprofit, Going on a hunt or a fishing trip or whatever, that's just a carrot we dangle. You know? The benefit is being in the outdoors with other veterans. You know? So, Anyways, I kinda put this together. I found a a a veteran that had recently gone through a a leg amputation surgery. He had actually been middle medically discharged a couple years before, but they were went through I don't I think it was, like, 8 different limb salvage surgeries, had a bunch of nerve damage, and finally, they just They took his leg off above the knee, and and so I reached out to him and said, hey, man. Are you up for something like this? And He's like, yeah. This was in April, and we did the hunt October. So during that time, you know, we were talking and chatting and texting every day.
Eric Pauly00:24:23 - 00:24:48
I went down to Texas to meet him and, You know, we hung out for a while, and and I basically just said, well, I've got this Facebook thing with all these people that are friends. You know? And I'm like, I'm just gonna Reach out to everybody and see who's in to help me, you know, get because my goal was to make sure that it wasn't a one and done thing. You know? It's like Doing a nice weekend thing, that's cool. But if you come back and can't do it again, what good are you really doing? You know?
Wayne Herring00:24:48 - 00:24:49
Sure.
Eric Pauly00:24:49 - 00:25:42
So really just reached out and asked for donations for everything that They would need that individual would need to, you know, to do that again over and over with his family or other veterans and that type of thing. So, You know, we got rifles, you know, or a rifle, ammunition, camping gear, you know, cots, tent, you know, wall tent, all the the Camp Cook set up stuff, you know, sleeping bag. I mean, everything I was able to get donated, and what really blew me away was, and I think this is common amongst most veterans as you don't You're kinda trained this way is that this is your service. You signed up for this. This is your duty, and it is. You don't expect anything from it. You know? There is no And that's why a lot of times if you say you know, someone says thank you for your service, you just kinda get a oh, you know, thanks, and they just kinda it it almost like an uncomfortable thing. But it amazed me.
Eric Pauly00:25:42 - 00:26:14
I never really thought about it, I guess, and I never really considered it. Amazed me how many everyday people love our veterans enough, And it really showed when I did that because there were so many people that didn't know me from Adam. They were like, I'm in. What do you need? You know? And I'm like, wow. These people really care. You know? And it was one of those eye opening things for me. So, you know, that was That was in 2015 with that veteran. We were out there, and and it was kinda crazy because we had it was a huge build up to this type of thing.
Eric Pauly00:26:14 - 00:26:59
And, Originally, I wasn't planning on doing a nonprofit. I was just my thought process was I'll do this once a year, and I'll I'll document how I did it and kinda create an SOP and kinda put it out there so other people can do it. Right? It turned out being a lot More difficult than just being able to write up a outline and send it around. I mean, not difficult isn't hard. It's just a lot more intricacies and and things that especially in dealing with veterans. Like, it took me 5 months to find a veteran to do this. These veterans in general are kind of mistrusting group. You know? They're not the kind that are gonna answer, I mean, a lot of veterans I know, like, they don't even have voice mails.
Eric Pauly00:26:59 - 00:27:37
And if they don't see recognize a number that are just calling, they don't answer the phone. You know? Gotcha. So there's not it's just not a lot of Unless they serve with you, they don't even you know, they they're not gonna respond to stuff. So in going through that process, and then It was kind of interesting. I guess, it's a sidebar, but the first we were out there, we ended up doing our hunt in in Southeast Idaho. We're out in the sticks in the middle of nowhere and spotty cell service, and I get a message from my sister. And She's like, you need to come to Denver. I think mom's dying, and and so I had to leave in the middle of that first time.
Eric Pauly00:27:38 - 00:27:51
I had to fly down to Denver, and my mom passed that next day. And she I had been talking to her because she had been living with me for quite a while about this whole thing, and and I knew she would want me to kinda continue through because this was like
Wayne Herring00:27:52 - 00:27:52
Your mom.
Eric Pauly00:27:53 - 00:28:33
Yeah. Yeah. She would want me to keep going. So I basically went down there and and said bye to my mom and flew back up, and and we continued the event. And then towards it was a 2 week deal, so towards the end of it, just That individual really opened up to me and said, you don't know what this has done for me just to have, an opportunity to, one, Work towards a goal, you know, because this was coming up, and he had to go through all rehab and, you know, all that stuff to be able to do this. And 2, to be able to overcome whatever limitations you think you have. You know? When he he told me when he got his Prosthetic. They're like, okay.
Eric Pauly00:28:33 - 00:28:43
You'll only be able to stand on this for, like, an hour a day, and then you'll have to be in a wheelchair. You can't do this. You can't do that. You can't. You can't. You can't. You can't. You know, they say the same thing, with PTSD.
Eric Pauly00:28:45 - 00:28:59
Guys that suffer from PTSD, they tell them you can't be around this. You can't be around these triggers. You can't do this. Can't do that. You can't do that. And so there's a lot of you get told you can't for so long, you know. And and we when we take it off, I was like, look, you can. You just it's just gonna be different.
Eric Pauly00:28:59 - 00:29:28
You know? Like, you may not be able to walk up that mountain as fast as I can. You can. You won't be the same speed, but we can still do it. You know? It's just a matter of effort. You know? And if you're willing to put the effort in, you can get it. And so it's kinda just redefining those limitations that they think they have. And And so he expressed how much all that meant to him, and he's like, we gotta figure out a way how to keep this going. And so It was I remember it was that night sitting outside the sitting outside the tent.
Eric Pauly00:29:28 - 00:29:42
We were sharing a cigar and and basically said, alright. I'll form this. If you're with me, we'll do this, and I'll figure out I've never formed a nonprofit. I was like, I'll figure it out, and we'll get it going. So That was, you know, spring of 2016 is when we formalized it.
Wayne Herring00:29:44 - 00:29:45
Is is he still working with you?
Eric Pauly00:29:46 - 00:30:25
Yeah. Yeah. He's he's been on the board for well, since then. He recently started working, kinda got a career going, so his time's a lot more limited now, so he's not he's still involved with the organization now on the veteran side and doing the events. He's not quite as Involved as he was before, but he's got family and stuff that he's got, you know, commitments that he's gotta do. His own balance has to be met there too. For a long time, he was It was his full time job, and he was doing operation pay it forward stuff for, you know, 60 hours a week, you know, Engaging with veterans, taking them out, working on the board, all that all that type of stuff. So he's a huge part of it and still is.
Wayne Herring00:30:26 - 00:30:53
His own balance test that's noteworthy and worth writing down that you keep testing that. You've you've met a couple times now that you've mentioned that that you test that and you actively move. Now I should know this before I ask the question, but I well, you started well, I know this, or I'm confident in this. You started Patriot Roofing with a partner. Right?
Eric Pauly00:30:53 - 00:30:59
Right. Well, I started so when I left that organization, I started a different business with a partner.
Wayne Herring00:31:00 - 00:31:01
Oh, okay. Alright.
Wayne Herring00:31:01 - 00:31:07
So then that's what I knew. That and that was when you and I first met was when you were starting that. You started that. Okay. Got it.
Eric Pauly00:31:08 - 00:31:18
Yep. That was in 2016, and that didn't end up working out. We had different philosophies. You know, we were both he actually worked for that other Corporation too. He was on the operation side. I was on the sales side.
Wayne Herring00:31:18 - 00:31:19
That's what I remembered.
Eric Pauly00:31:19 - 00:31:51
And we both had the same kind of you know, we both, talked about the same, type of things that we weren't happy with in that organization. So and then when we started our own company together, I saw him. He kinda gravitated back towards that same Type of ideology and stuff, so we butted heads a lot. And so it was, I think, a year later, then I just said, you know, why don't we just Split. I'll start this over here, and he lived over there in in Vancouver. So we he bought me out, not when I started Patriot and and kind of went separate ways. Yeah.
Wayne Herring00:31:51 - 00:32:08
Okay. Okay. Gotcha. Well and that, you know, this idea of, focusing on hero stories in the podcast, part of the story is sometimes we have setbacks or And not even a setback. Right? Just a change. Well, that didn't work. And you're the kind of guy I obviously pick up on. Well, that didn't work.
Wayne Herring00:32:08 - 00:32:13
Alright. Well, then we'll go do this thing, and I'll figure it out. Right. And and do it again.
Eric Pauly00:32:13 - 00:33:00
And it's a perception thing. Right? Because it's like, I look at those things as It's just another step to get to your goal instead of a fail you know, other people look at it and say, oh, that's it's failed. You know, that relationship failed or that That business relationship failed or whatever failed, and he was doing this part, and I was doing this part. Now I can't do it on my own because I don't know, you know, whatever it is. But I think the the driving force from the very beginning, and I think it's a quality I got from when I was in the army, was the things they teach you. And I was in the infantry, so it's all combat Stuff. So it's all basically you just you you just always keep fighting no matter what until you have no breath left. You always keep fighting, and that's And that's just kind of the core mentality, and, I gravitated towards that a lot.
Eric Pauly00:33:00 - 00:33:43
And they made me do things that I thought I never could do. You know? And then once you start doing it, it's like, okay. Then you start realizing all the things that I thought I could never do or is my own head telling me I couldn't do them. There's no reason I couldn't do them. You know? And so coming out of that, my philosophy has always been, like, there's no way I can fail because if I don't quit, I can't fail. That's I mean, and that's a common term, but when you when you put it into practice, it's like there's when you never stop fighting, you can't fail. And so it creates a sort of a peace of mind, actually. You know, when you just say, if I give it everything I have every day and I Reflect and evaluate and make sure I'm making good choices, then you really can't fail.
Eric Pauly00:33:43 - 00:34:08
You know? It's just and I think the startup part honestly is easier for me because because it's just all grunt force. You know? It's just putting the time in. It's all effort and freaking grow and grow. And then once you hit that first kind of Plateau where you start bringing other people on. That's where it's a little more strategy and, you know, decision based and not just, you know, Punch in the bag all day long, you know, which is easy.
Wayne Herring00:34:09 - 00:34:41
So $3,000,000 roofing company, people running it, Read the 4 hour work week and didn't believe that that was only for tech startups. Also believe that would be for a blue collar type business like roofing, 3 kids, this nonprofit, build your dream home, was able you were able to take 2 years to be the general contractor, do lots of the work, Self performing it. And, by the way, and to get current on your story, just a little bit about, what was that dream home? What did you dream? What did you sketch? What are you living in right now?
Eric Pauly00:34:41 - 00:35:17
Yeah. So I ended up building a it's about a 4,000 square foot long home. And it's so this goes back to I've always been into woodworking since I was a kid, and I've always wanted to have a log on. And I actually found my wife found the sketchbook I had when I was in Bosnia when I was to Bosnia, and I've drawn up it was the 1st rendition I've drawn up how I wanted my log home to be. Uh-huh. And, it's it was in 97, And we just found it. It's funny how many of the details of this house actually coincided with That first drawing I did in 97.
Wayne Herring00:35:18 - 00:35:18
Right.
Eric Pauly00:35:18 - 00:35:49
So it's kinda one of those things where you just gotta decide what you really want And what and do you want it bad enough to put everything you got into it? You know? And it and that was my goal forever. And so and then I was like, okay. We need a piece of land. I'm like, why don't I just log home sitting on a chunk of desert in the middle of, you know, Southern Utah or something like that. You know, I like fishing. I like honey. I wanna be around national forest and water. So I found a place started looking for a place to buy land back in mid 2000, and I bought this property in 2008.
Eric Pauly00:35:50 - 00:36:24
So that was one of the milestones, and I'm like, that's where I'm gonna build my log home one day. That was in 0 8. And then, you know but, obviously, I didn't have the means or anything like that at time, but it's like, that was a big milestone, and you're still going towards that. So I don't know if it's just tenacity or what, but if you I think some people get impatient that they're not hitting their goals fast enough. But where I look at it, like, as long as you're kinda directing everything you're doing towards that. It doesn't matter if you're going an inch a day or a mile a day. You know? Eventually, you get there, And that's progress? Mine is progress.
Wayne Herring00:36:25 - 00:36:43
Right? I had I had a guy. Brian, Meninger was, just ran a 100 mile race, and he owns Him and his wife, Victoria, have this outdoor living, landscaping decks, things, company in Virginia. And one of the things he said during the 100 mile race is that Progress is progress.
Eric Pauly00:36:43 - 00:36:44
It seemed like you
Wayne Herring00:36:44 - 00:36:52
gotta remember that progress is progress. You're not running the whole time when you're doing a race like that. Race is kind of a Misnomer. You're sometimes Yeah.
Eric Pauly00:36:52 - 00:37:23
You're not sprinting for a 100 miles. Yeah. And that's kind of the way I look at it is and I think some people, they just don't have the I don't know what it is. You know? I try try to evaluate it. If they just get distracted or The priority shift, which happens over time, and that's as long as it's and that that's my measuring mark. Right. If if if you keep working towards something, then that's a huge life priority. You know? If it's just, and there's thing some things that you'll give up on.
Eric Pauly00:37:23 - 00:38:17
You know? I mean, it's Something that may be a priority, a smaller priority at the time in your life that you might just be like, look. It's not it's not worth the time and the money, the whatever the to get the benefit that I'm gonna get out of that. You know? And you readjust. You know? It it's not to say that every priority I've ever had in my life, I've killed and gone after and accomplished, you know, because sometimes they weren't the right priorities, you know, and you shift. But, I guess, when you're trying to if I'm trying to explain it to, like, a, you know, a 2 year old or something, it's like, how do you decide which priorities are the ones that you pursue? There's no there's nothing you can write down in a book and say this is how you do it. It's gotta be your internal fire, you know, and, But like I said, I don't look at it as, like, a hero thing. It's just a matter of you just keep going to 1 step further, you know, that progress. And that's how we got here.
Eric Pauly00:38:17 - 00:39:08
But then you kinda get to the point too, like, right after I finish this house where there's kind of When you work so hard towards a certain goal even doing the business and you accomplish it, then it's like, oh, crap. Like, you it's almost I don't wanna say it's a depression, but it's kinda like It's like a part of your life that's gone now. You know? Not the house. The house is here, but that that drive and that effort and that fight is gone now because it's done. You know? And then you have to kinda and that's where you know, like, I had to take some reflection time and just be like, k. This is a good thing. You know? It's not a bad thing. You know? And now you have this, you know, energy and time and all this other stuff, so let's reevaluate all the other, You know, life balance things and see what's been lagging and and how can we put more time into that and make that your new, You know, priority.
Eric Pauly00:39:08 - 00:39:11
So, it was kinda surprising.
Wayne Herring00:39:12 - 00:39:41
So well and I've heard a lot of that. You you remind me of Other people I work with that are, yeah, society would call high performers, and and you are creators, and It's yeah. You finish something, and then naturally, there's like a lull afterwards. And I it seems like you've done a lot of Internal work on that. It's not the 1st time it has happened to you. You'll think of something else. I was thinking this sketchbook you have is kinda magical. Right? So what's Yeah.
Wayne Herring00:39:41 - 00:40:01
What's What's what's next in the sketchbook? Or you may have some other maybe it's not the same sketchbook that your wife found, but you're sketching something else, and That's okay. Like, we don't wanna make that wrong either. I there is no the only destination is the grave, right, at least on the side of the Whole equation depending on what you think.
Eric Pauly00:40:02 - 00:40:37
So Well, and I think it was long time ago when I was when I worked for that corporation. You know? And I've always been a All out work, anybody. You know? That's kinda how I moved up quickly through that corporation. I started as a laborer, you know, right out of the army, And I was throwing trash for roofing crews. You know? And when I left, I was VP of sales for 2 regions, but it was When I went there, I was like, there's no one that's gonna outwork me. You know? And, like, I'll do the job that they're telling me to do that should take this whole day. I'll do it in half a day, And then I'll tell them what's next. You know? And that's how I I've always done everything.
Eric Pauly00:40:37 - 00:41:20
That's how I've gotten where I'm at. I didn't have college education. You know? I went to the army instead of school and But I developed critical thinking skills early on and from whatever. I don't know. Just I've I've always Looked at things and tried to identify, like, root causes of problems and possible solutions and evaluate ever since I was a kid. And I think Critical thinking skills are kind of, I mean, probably what make most people successful that are in, you know, like you said, that high performing area. But to be able to evaluate something objectively and be able to find the solutions and effectiveness and efficiency and move on. But then when I got to, you know, older, I started having a family and stuff.
Eric Pauly00:41:20 - 00:41:40
It's like, okay. Yeah. I could do this all day, and I got pride from it. You know, it's kind of that whole, I'm gonna do 80 hours a week, and this is who I am, and that gives you pride in what you're doing. But I'm like, I don't have time to do Things I love to do, and I don't have time to reflect. I don't have time to spend with my family. I don't, you know, have this time. So it was early on.
Eric Pauly00:41:40 - 00:42:20
I think it was in I wanna say it was 2013 when I started looking at I think that's when I read Tim Ferris's book And didn't really know how to connect the dots then. But as I started thinking in that mindset. You know, it's like how k. Well, how do I make this translate over to construction? There's no way. This is tech industry or this was Supplements, you know, going through distribute Supplements. Centers and packaging places and online sales, and I didn't have any of that experience. And, like but As I went through it, I kept that in my mind as I went through my, you know, my daily job and everything I was doing. I was like, well, you could do this.
Eric Pauly00:42:21 - 00:42:52
If you found someone that could do this for you, it may not be a distribution center, maybe an individual, but instead of paying distribution center, you're paying an individual. If you find the right individual and treat them well, you kinda create the same thing. And so that's I started piecing it together, you know, through that time, but it it took time. I just Wanted to make sure that I think a lot of it's just impatience. People are like, okay. I got an idea. I'm gonna run with it. You know? It's like you really hadn't thought it through, And then you're kind of I don't wanna say dooming yourself to failure.
Eric Pauly00:42:52 - 00:43:35
And some people do that really well. You know, they have an idea, and they just run with it, and they're freaking golden. I mean, there's Tons of success stories that way. I'm not that way. I'm a little bit more of a thinker, and I need to know kinda have a few steps planned out before I start running into it. But, but, yeah, I think it's I think it's just a, a matter of kind of Taking what you need from experiences from others and and your work experience and people, you know, like, complain about the stuff they have to do at work and stuff like that. It's like, We'll look at it and why do you have to do that and do a root cause analysis and find a solution. And if that company doesn't take that solution, know, start building your own set of solutions so that you can go do it on your own down the road.
Eric Pauly00:43:35 - 00:43:37
That's kind of what I did.
Wayne Herring00:43:37 - 00:44:12
So so It's a 4,000 square foot house, log home, build it, build it on your own, and, 2 2 other things about, like, the way things are and what you've created. One is I'm curious about so what what kind of hunting trips have you done this year? And then dealing with The the operation pay it forward, and you mentioned, like, starting off with that 1 person, and now you mentioned he's on the board of directors. So there's a little bit more to fill in about how things are on that. So let's let's do the fun stuff. The the hunting and fishing trips, tell us Some good stuff.
Eric Pauly00:44:12 - 00:44:26
Yeah. I mean, that's that's actually been probably one of the hardest things to do this house build is I really didn't have time to do a lot of that. You know? And I live I can show you that. This is my view out the window, but, I don't know if you can see it, but the river
Wayne Herring00:44:26 - 00:44:30
right there. The snow the snow is coming Yeah. On the porch a
Eric Pauly00:44:30 - 00:44:49
little bit. Yeah. Yeah. And there's National Forest. There's certain animals all around here, and it's not like I have to travel to go You know? And and so it was kind of it's one of those things that hated me because that's kinda where I got my reset. You know? And it's like, I don't have time to do this. So Last couple years have been a little rough. I did go to Alaska last year on a moose hunt.
Eric Pauly00:44:49 - 00:45:35
And the year before, I just kinda blocked out those times for, like, a DIY, You know, just get a bush plane, fly in there, have an adventure, and be completely in the middle of nowhere. You know? And that's, yeah, that's kind of the stuff I love. I I like to always go experience new things and whether it's hunting new animals or going to new places or that type of thing. It's, I always liked the challenge, so it's kind of like, if you just go to the same spot every time where you know you know? Like in the whitetail woods, you know, these Deer always gonna be in this spot. You know? There's been 7 generations that have shot a deer from that stand, and you just go there. And that's nothing wrong with that. It's just that's not the Different. I like to do is go to the other place, go to the place I haven't been, and the challenge of figuring it out.
Eric Pauly00:45:36 - 00:46:01
And and so that's And I've been to Africa twice. I've been to Alaska three times. I've hunted in Utah and Idaho and Colorado and New Mexico and, Washington. So it it's just, for me, it's just I I love that challenge and that ability. You know, it's kind of that Feeling of accomplishment. You know, like, you build in a house. Like, you're just walking in the woods. I don't and I don't hire guides.
Eric Pauly00:46:01 - 00:46:52
I just go and figure it out. And so Walk being able to walk into the woods in a new place and kinda figure stuff out is for me, it's it's a different kind of accomplishment because like you said that, You know, I'm one of those kinda the rough self reliant type of guys, and I am. And the core of it is to me, like, If everything around me falls apart, can I still survive? You know? And I'm not a doomsdayer per se or anything like that, but it's like, I think Being in the army and being in other countries and seeing what's happened in other parts of the world that what we have here is a lot more fragile than everybody thinks it is. And just the ability to be able to go out and take care of myself and my family and know that I can do that, and you don't know that you can do that unless you're doing it. You know, it's perishable skill. You can't say, oh, yeah. I did that once, so I'm good. You know? Sure.
Eric Pauly00:46:52 - 00:47:50
So I find it a lot of satisfaction in it, and it's a lot of just Peacefulness. And it's one things that I I one of the things I explained to the veterans is, if you can get so Passionate about something, you know, and it doesn't have to be hunting or fishing, but something that that occupies your mind to the point where nothing else can enter your mind when you're doing it. It allows your brain to reset. You know? And I fly fish a lot, so I'll stand out here in the river, and I'll watch 1 rising fish, and I'll and I'll see him. I'll try to pattern him, and he's in a tough spot to ask you and I'll switch flies, but all I'm thinking about is that fish. And you walk into the river with all these problems and all these stress and all those thing that's, You know? And they're all fighting each other for brain span attention, and you're just kinda jumping from 1 to the next. You're not really making any ground on anything. You go do that, you know, for a couple hours, you come back out, and then those problems look different.
Eric Pauly00:47:50 - 00:48:44
You know, they're not as they're not as critical usually as you thought they were. You know, it's easier to prioritize them and say, okay. This one can wait. This needs to be done now, and here's some, You know, logical evaluation solution type thing. And so I talked to veterans a lot about that because the One of the worst things for them is having free time, you know, because the things that are entering my brain are like, you know, money stuff or, you know, and I still have a little bit of stuff from when I was in the army, but it's when I was in, I've gotten through most of that, but A lot of these guys that came back recently or saw a lot more combat than I did. As soon as they're they don't have something holding their attention, that's where their brain goes. It goes with the dark places. You know? And so if you can get them passionate about something where if they're not doing it, they're thinking about doing it, or they're planning to do it, Or they're planning the next time they're gonna do it.
Eric Pauly00:48:44 - 00:48:51
It it's very I mean, it's life saving, really. It sounds silly, but it is because it keeps their brain in the right place.
Wayne Herring00:48:53 - 00:49:27
Makes perfect sense. And, you you're there there's so many people that I think of that, we'll love your story and that some some of them you'd really like to connect with. And and then there's people at conversations I've had in the past that tie in. Like, There's a guy that owned, we just released his podcast last week. His name's Pete Claire, and he's in upstate York. He built a hunting lodge up there in the middle of New York where people said you couldn't have a hunting lodge. And Right. Him and his wife hand built this lodge out of logs that they cut on the state forest, not the national forest.
Wayne Herring00:49:27 - 00:49:53
Nice. And when I was talking with him, he said to me about people coming there to hunt with him in turkey trot, and he said, everybody needs Something to look forward to. And that's the act of looking forward to something. It was the act of focusing our brain on that rather than whatever else we might focus on, so it makes perfect sense. Tell tell me tell us about, so how has operation pay it forward evolved, and what does that look like now.
Eric Pauly00:49:54 - 00:51:03
Right. So we started out with a you have to have 4 people on a board to start the organization, so I reached out some to some people. And some of them I didn't really even know that well, but had good skill sets that I knew I needed. And it's a completely different scenario because, At least the way I looked at it, because I had been in sales my most of my career, and it's you know, I've done a lot of business deals, and you're asking For something for something in return. You know, you're saying I will say that I want your money, and I'm gonna give you this. And with this, there was nothing to Give them so when I when I wrote the bylaws for the organization, I wrote it that there wouldn't be any paid positions in this organization ever. And the reason I did that was because I've been around some other nonprofits, and I've Done some other charity stuff in that where it becomes very gray, you know, when you're and I'm not saying this makes a nonprofit bad, but When you start thinking of money in terms of percentages instead of dollars, you know, that's how you end up with CEOs of a nonprofit that maybe $10,000,000 a year. Well, it's only 10% or whatever it is, but it's but it's $10,000,000.
Eric Pauly00:51:04 - 00:51:26
And that $10,000,000 could be used for a lot more. You know? And then it becomes a job instead of a passion. And so then it's like, how much are you really putting into it, or is it like a typical 9 to 5 that A lot of America does where it's like, yeah. I I punched the clock. I checked the box. Give me my paycheck. I'm gonna go home. And so I kinda took a list.
Eric Pauly00:51:26 - 00:52:34
So doing that and asking people to join was really all faith based. You know? Do they love our veterans enough that they're gonna do this. They're gonna give their time and, you know, their resources to do this. And I basically went into it saying, well, If the need is there and I found the need on both sides, so obviously, the veteran need is obvious. But there was a need on the civilian side to connect with our veterans For them to be able to actually show away, show their appreciation in a way that, they could feel that Connection. You know? Not just, you know, stroking a check and sending it off in the mail type of thing because that's not really a connection to anything. I mean, it's it's good to give, but so there was I saw a need on both sides and being able to utilize that need to help kind of both sides of the of the of the aisle there. So, and I just kinda started putting this together, and and it was all been driven by Just a core value of making a long lasting impact on our veterans in their lives.
Eric Pauly00:52:36 - 00:53:38
And the reason I say that is because there's a lot of organizations, like I said, that do the here's a cool weekend trip or there's this kind of thing. And Coming from the veteran side, when I look at it, like, when I was struggling a bit when I came out, if I got to go do something really cool And then I got sent back to the couch, you know, on Monday. It'd almost be more depressing now knowing there's this thing that I that I felt like I couldn't do anymore. You know? So we're the way to make it kind of long lasting impactful, how do you keep in touch with these individuals? You know, you can make a phone roster, Phone tree or something like that. None of that's sustainable, you know, to be able to follow-up and and keep in touch. So we started shortly after we started our ambassador program, which we just had a board retreat, and it kinda just popped into my head because we're thinking we started growing pretty exponentially that 1st year. When I say growing, like, the number of veterans that were They were coming to us in need, and so I started looking at, like, how are we gonna scale this, you know, from a business standpoint. Like, if okay.
Eric Pauly00:53:38 - 00:54:24
We don't have paid positions. We have a 4 person board, and it's just volunteer time. How do we scale this? And I didn't wanna exclude any veteran that wasn't, you know, geographically convenient. Because, like, just because they live in Maine doesn't mean that they don't need help and we shouldn't be excluding them. You know? But then you start reaching across the country, and it's a lot, you know, it's a lot more work. And so, like, how do we do this? And then we started looking at it Started looking at, well, how do we keep in touch with all these veterans that have been out? Like, they go out and then they go back home. How do we know what they're doing? And so it just kinda popped into my head. Like, what if we create an ambassador program where the veterans that we take out, and they get to go do these, You know, hunt your fishing trips or whatever.
Eric Pauly00:54:24 - 00:55:17
What if they become part of the organization and they lead? And the other issue we had early on was, Like I said before, veterans are miss a mistrusting group. And so how do you reach the ones that really need it? There are veterans that'll raise their hand for any free thing. Right? And but, typically, they're not the ones that need it for their lives, you know, that are struggling. The ones that are struggling aren't gonna answer anything unless it's Somebody they served with or someone they know says, hey, man. You gotta go and do this. You know? So to be able to connect with those veterans, those ambassadors can Reach out to the guys that they serve with or people in their community, people that they're connected with, you know, veteran, men and women that they're connected with, and then set up their own events In their area, whatever their interests are or those veterans' interests are. I mean, we've had people do rock climbing, you know, golf, white water rafting. It's that we're not particular on what the event is.
Eric Pauly00:55:17 - 00:55:52
Again, that's kind of a carrot you dangle for them to go. Gotcha. And then the the side bend so it really Opened us up because we could create we do trainings with our ambassadors to say, you know, this is within the rules of a five zero one c three. There are certain things you can and can't do, And this is how we need to structure it, and then we train them on suicide awareness and also self evaluation. Sometimes when you get with someone that's in a bad spot, it kinda Pulled you into that bad spot. So we do training with them, and then we send them out. They fill out a worksheet based on what their plans are. They submit it back to the board.
Eric Pauly00:55:53 - 00:56:36
You know, we approve it in the budget, and then we send them the funds, and they they do their event with those veterans. The side benefit so that helped us to be to keep in touch with these individuals because they're doing investor events. They're leading other veteran events, so they're engaged with us. We know how they're doing. But what we saw was, which I didn't originally anticipate, but seemed really obvious after the first few, Was you're giving them a new mission. Mhmm. Because one of the things that that our veterans miss the most or Or they have the biggest issue with and, honestly, what leads to a lot of the suicides is when you were downrange, you were serving, you were doing something hugely important. You know, you were saving lives.
Eric Pauly00:56:36 - 00:57:16
You're protecting your country. You're in charge of 1,000,000 of dollars of equipment. Every day, every time you woke up, it was impactful. What you did that day was impactful. And then you get medically retired or you get you just get out and you come back, And you're just 1 to 350,000,000. You know? And you're just you're just a lump on a couch. You know? The biggest decision you have to make is, Should I have McDonald's or Burger King for breakfast? You know? It's nothing what you do doesn't mean anything anymore. You know? So Being able to have these veterans then be ambassadors and help save other veterans, that gave them a new mission in life, you know, in their civilian lives.
Eric Pauly00:57:16 - 00:58:08
And a lot of these guys are medically retired, so a lot of them don't have jobs. Or if they do, they don't necessarily have to have jobs. You're being compensated to have disability ratings, that kind of thing. So having them be able to Help other veterans, and it also helps them heal. In fact, our cofounder of the guy I was talking about earlier, he he called it, healing through helping. Because when you start getting apathetic or, like, poor me or, you know, it's like, man, this sucks that I have to this or that after that or this whatever, and then you go out with Some other veterans and you see guys that are either struggling more than you or or those that are maybe missing limbs and they're doing it, then you kinda it's a little bit of a perception check, you know, where it's like, maybe my life isn't that bad. You know? So I just kind of rounded out the whole scenario. So It's been going really well.
Eric Pauly00:58:09 - 00:59:13
I think this is in 22, we're going into our 7th year, I think. So And as far as funding goes, the other thing I didn't wanna get into is I started looking at the big corporate funding and all that kind of stuff to make all this money, and I found that when you get into that arena, they wanna influence what you're doing. Sure. You know? I was like, I don't want my money attached to this if you're going hunting or if you got firearms or Black colored rifles or whatever it is. You know? And I'm like, I'm not gonna let our ownership our donors dictate what we're doing. The veterans are gonna What needs to be done? You know? So we ended up building just a really core group good core group of Really good individuals, so almost all of our funding comes from private donations. We do a couple banquets each year, and we do some live auctions, and Some very generous people show up and spend a lot of money on stuff, and that's that's how we we fund our our organization, so it's been again, it to me, from a business standpoint, it's like none of this should have worked. Like, this Right.
Eric Pauly00:59:13 - 00:59:27
This shouldn't this shouldn't have worked. Like, you shouldn't This shouldn't have just gone like this. So it's kind of more of a faith based. Like, the need was there, and it's working, so there's gonna be mechanism to fund it. And so it just kinda happened.
Wayne Herring00:59:27 - 00:59:35
It's not about numbers at all, but to get a sense for where you're at, like, how many veterans, participated in the last year.
Eric Pauly00:59:36 - 00:59:43
So we do in in this year this calendar year, where I think we're at, like, 1600.
Wayne Herring00:59:45 - 00:59:52
Woah. Woah. Woah. So I expected you to 1600 Yeah. Veterans
Eric Pauly00:59:53 - 00:59:53
Yep.
Wayne Herring00:59:53 - 00:59:56
In this thing that you weren't sure it was gonna work
Eric Pauly00:59:56 - 00:59:56
Right.
Wayne Herring00:59:57 - 00:59:58
In in 7 years.
Eric Pauly00:59:59 - 01:00:47
Yeah. I think we're at I think we're at, like, 68100 or something like that in 7 years. I mean, the 1st year, we did, like, a A 100. You know? And it kinda snowballed from the air. And it's, It's it's kinda crazy because the when we started the ambassador program, there was just exponential growth Because then you have these we have 70 ambassadors right now, and they're all over the country, and they're all doing you know, Some of them are doing 1 event a year. Some are doing 6 or 8, and they're taking 4 to 6 other vets with them. And then the board's still doing board run events. We still do our kind of our get togethers with our, veterans, and a lot of those numbers aren't all brand new veterans.
Eric Pauly01:00:47 - 01:01:11
You know, a lot of this is We've had individuals that have gone through the program. I haven't really wanted to become ambassador, but then we get word that they're kinda starting to slip, And they're getting in a bad spot, so we make sure we grab them, get them back out, and make sure they're in a good spot. So, some of it's repeat type stuff, but when we look at it just The number of veterans every year that have been out in on a programmer event.
Wayne Herring01:01:12 - 01:01:51
So in in Patriot Roofing, You have a staff, but you're still the CEO and I guess. And at over here, at operation pay it forward. You still have a prominent role, but you're all these things are like building it, trusting other people. How do you, how do you lead at Patriot? What is that like? What are your hours like? What are the kind of things you're doing? And then how do you Impactfully lead and and allow it to take the direction it's supposed to go at operation pay it forward. How how do you Sure.
Eric Pauly01:01:51 - 01:01:51
How
Wayne Herring01:01:51 - 01:01:54
do you show up? How are you being in those 2 worlds?
Eric Pauly01:01:55 - 01:02:43
So in the the Patriot Roofing side of things, Really, most of my time was spent up front with the individual that I hired for an operations manager. And when I hired him, I said, look. I'm not looking for someone to run my crews and order materials. I'm looking for someone to run the business. I don't wanna run the business day to day, you know, and I will tell I will train you exactly how I want that done and but I will compensate you for it well, you know, if you do it. And if you look at it like it's your business and you look out for me and the organization, and I went through 3 or 4 individuals that I kinda ran that same speech, and they ended up being gone in couple of months because it just wasn't it wasn't gonna happen. You know? Yeah. So it's more of a And, again, like I said, setting up kind of processes or SOPs.
Eric Pauly01:02:43 - 01:03:28
You know, one of the thing I got from Tim Ferris's book was, like, his distributing Distribution arm or whatever that was sending out his product, there is a automatic refund policy where if it didn't go over a certain dollar amount, Just give them the money back. You know? It's like, don't don't squabble over the nickels and dimes because the amount of time that you're using to do that It's worth more than those nickels and dimes. So I kinda did the same thing with this. And he'd been in the roofing industry for a long time, but he was in the old school way where it's like anytime somebody says anything, you fight you fight them on it. You know? Oh, you broke my screen. You fight them on it. That was broken before, you know, blah blah blah blah blah. And it's just like, So, you know, just kinda trading them through those scenarios where it's like, when this happens, this is what I want you to do.
Eric Pauly01:03:28 - 01:03:49
Gotcha. And then you don't need to get me involved unless it escalates to this level. You know, I trust you. You know what you're doing. Take care of the customer, and you can see that customer walk out And freaking smash your garden gnome with his baseball bat and then tell tell us we did it and it cost $50. Just give him the $50. I don't care. You know? Not a problem.
Eric Pauly01:03:49 - 01:04:28
Fight over it. Yeah. Just it doesn't matter who's right or wrong. You know? Just and I said if it and I have a dollar threshold limit where, like, if it gets over this when you talk about it. And then if you see it going in a direction of not wanting to pay a bill or, you know, that kind of stuff, I said, you know, get me involved. But, You know, honestly, I probably involved with specific customer issues maybe 15 to 20 times a year, You know? And and I've got higher level negotiating skills that I had to do back at, you know, the other company I worked for where I can sort stuff out. So it's kinda like oh, I wanna say it runs itself. It doesn't.
Eric Pauly01:04:28 - 01:05:02
My operations manager runs it, but the SOPs I put in place are kinda what runs itself. And then I kinda trained him to train the crews. Look. If you do everything really well and you go above and beyond, you can break a yard gnome, and they won't care because you did such a good job. They might just say they might not even say anything about it. You know? They might just put it in the trash can and not even tell you. You know? So That whole customer level or customer care level and quality kind of really and he started to see that. Like, the more personal attention you give them, Magically, the less problems you have on the jobs.
Eric Pauly01:05:02 - 01:05:02
You know?
Wayne Herring01:05:03 - 01:05:34
So probably I mean, there there would be loads of questions I could ask you to unpack, but, really, it was You build it. You created SOPs. You created, like, almost like if then flow charts for what to do, and you hired the right person, and you were also willing to say or or to help the person say that you made the wrong choice with 3 or 3 or 4 people before you got to the one you have now running it. And now here you are. And then how about on, Operation Pay It Forward?
Eric Pauly01:05:35 - 01:06:30
So operation pay it forward, I'm actually a lot more involved in. I'm still the board chair and president, And I feel a responsibility kind of because it is because it is an all volunteer organization. With Patriot Roofing, it's different because I can say I'm compensating you well. You're making more than most people are making in your position, and I'm doing it because you're doing these things, I want you to keep doing that. You know? On the operation pay it forward side, everyone is doing it on the good of their heart. You know? And we've talked about, you know, the everybody's priorities in their life balance. That shifts throughout the year. And so you have individuals that maybe in charge of this or that that, you know, a family member dies or, you know, they've got a kid getting married or So, you know, all the life stuff that comes up.
Eric Pauly01:06:30 - 01:06:33
And so, basically, I kinda fill in.
Wayne Herring01:06:34 - 01:06:34
Mhmm.
Eric Pauly01:06:34 - 01:07:17
So out of all of our board members, you know, everyone's got kind of a we call them lanes, but they've got a set of responsibilities. And for me personally, I'm kind of the filling guy. So I'm kinda like the low man. If you wanted to look at it in those terms, I'm kinda like the low man on the totem pole, but I don't look at it like that. I'm just Sure. I have the time, so I'm gonna use that time to make sure the organization keeps tracking and going in the right direction. And it it's more of a as far as my role as a leader, it's more I think of a, an inspirational type of leadership and and because it can become a grind. You do anything too much, and it can become a grind.
Eric Pauly01:07:17 - 01:07:55
You know? And Kind of keeping that presence of mind of what we're really doing and the impact we're really making and sharing those stories from the veterans and stuff like that that we take out with the board. Because, I mean, once you get into that administrative stuff, you don't you don't have the event. You don't get to look that guy in the eye and and and see and have them cheer up and and thank you for for what we're doing. You don't get to see that. So it can become It can kinda go away. You know? And so trying to kinda keep that refocused, make sure we're our core mission is staying on track. And we do some other stuff too. I mean, we've done the last 5, 6 years.
Eric Pauly01:07:55 - 01:08:42
We donate to, OSU. It has a veteran entrepreneurial program. We have a grant that we give to them or a scholarship, I guess. Every year, we've started a 1 800 hop hotline for, Veteran help just for a peer support type thing instead of a suicide line, you know, where they can call if they're having a bad day and talk to another veteran. You know, we've done some other, education linked stuff. We're looking at now a new program for spouses of veterans, being able to kinda lead their own events because a lot of the spouses that have been with, you know, their husbands or wives through combat and stuff like that. They have that secondary secondary PTSD from that, and they need support as well. So those types of things.
Eric Pauly01:08:42 - 01:09:26
And then Recently well, it was the end of last year. We bought a chunk of land in Texas, 80 acres down there. So We're building a veteran camp down there, some cabins, that's got hogs and deer and wildlife on it. And For, phase 2 is we're gonna put in, like, a little pond with the sand beach. So not just for a hunting camp, but for families and stuff to go and enjoy. So it's like an hour from Abilene's in the middle of nowhere. You know, you're not gonna have all the anxieties and stresses and that kind of stuff. So We're just trying to get our our 1st couple cabins and our, bathroom house kinda finished up right now, and then We'll start using that that property as well.
Eric Pauly01:09:26 - 01:09:37
So there's always kind of there's new things on the horizon all the time. I just look at them and, You know, are they supporting the core mission and trying to make sure we don't get too many rabbit holes going different ways?
Wayne Herring01:09:38 - 01:10:20
Those are the new things in your sketchbook. What So we're we're gonna get wrap up, and we're I could talk to you forever. But Yeah. We won't today. How can people, you know, people naturally? Because I think you're right when you said, well, this doesn't you know, there's no compensation or whatever, but, of course, There is. People have a, as you said, a kind of a hole in their heart sometimes and desire to give back and and help. I don't know that you need help with Patriot Roofing from our listeners, but with Operation Pay It Forward, is there anything What way people could help you if they feel called to and how would they get in touch with you?
Eric Pauly01:10:20 - 01:11:00
Yeah. So, I mean, we've maximized we don't we We don't get a ton of dollars. Like I said, we're not we don't have multimillion dollar donations and stuff like that. So we try to maximize our dollars as much as possible, and a lot of that is through, individuals. You know, like, hey. I've got a branch or I've got a hunting lodge or whatever. I'd be happy to block out a weekend for you guys to do an event here. Or I've got a farm or I've got snowmobiles and the national forces in my backyard, and I've got a cabin or a bunk house or something for people to stay in, that kind of stuff, which I think, you know, you get to be personally involved so you can kinda see that, you know, interact with the veterans and that type of thing.
Eric Pauly01:11:01 - 01:11:21
The other side is if you don't have that stuff is just, you know, money donations too. They do I mean, it's you know, I don't wanna say we're just the one that their hands out for money, but if You don't have those resources, but either one of those, you can go to our our website, which is www.0pif, the number 4, our vets.org.
Wayne Herring01:11:21 - 01:11:24
And there's a contact For our vets.
Eric Pauly01:11:25 - 01:11:48
Yep. Dotorg. Yep. And if you go there, there's a contact form, and that's the best way to get ahold of us. Because otherwise, you're reaching 1 board member, and it might be not be the right one, and then you're Trying to we're trying to pass it around, but those go to all the board members. There's a contact form on there. There's also a donate button. And if any veterans are interested, there's also a sign up button on there.
Eric Pauly01:11:48 - 01:13:01
It'll say veterans start here. You click on it. Fill out your information, what your interests are, and then we get those every day, and we try to When we have an event in that region or set up, the one thing I would say is if you anyone come to Cross a veteran that's really struggling, reach out to us on that contact page whether you're a civilian or another veteran. We'll we'll drop everything and make whatever arrangements we need to make for that individual. There's a lot of individuals that are just kinda struggle day to day. You know, they're just Having a hard time or whatever, but then there's some that are like, you can tell that something is not right, and it could go very wrong. And if we can catch those individuals at the right time, we also have some mental health partners both inside the VA and outside the VA, that If they're really struggling, that we can make sure they're getting the help they need, is what it's really about is saving lives. You know? You can't not everyone can translate that from a hunting trip to saving someone's life or a fishing trip to saving someone's life, but in the veteran mindset of things, it It happens all the time.
Wayne Herring01:13:01 - 01:13:11
I I totally believe, and I think, anybody listening to this will believe. And I probably talked over you when you said The website can you just say that again, and I'll be quiet?
Eric Pauly01:13:11 - 01:13:17
Yeah. It's o p I f, the number 4, hour vets.org.
Wayne Herring01:13:19 - 01:13:22
Thanks. Yeah. I had good intentions, but that was better.
Eric Pauly01:13:22 - 01:13:24
No. You're good.
Wayne Herring01:13:24 - 01:13:55
Last Eric, this is all wonderful and great what you're building. If, business builders because we have a diverse group who are building from their their sketchbook, from their dreams, landscape companies, fitness coaching practices, medical clinics, a diverse thing. Right? If you just, think of 2 or 3 things that you would suggest they sit and think about for a moment and jot down their book. Anything come to mind?
Eric Pauly01:14:00 - 01:15:16
You know, for me, I think I got most of it from, If it's something you're not sure how to do, okay, like, usually, if you know what you're doing, like, you already had a business doing this before, it's kinda easy to get going. I I think for me, I I read a lot of business books and a lot of I mean, there's the, how is it, the Four disciplines of execution, you know, the Covey group did and and some of those, and and the part that You have to do is be able to read that stuff and read between the lines and be able to apply it to what you're trying to do. Like, The 4 hour work week is not that's not a construction thing. You know? But be able to take those those things, you know, obviously, everybody thinks differently. I guess the one major thing I would say is If you're if you're really going after it and you're really committed to it, have the mindset of there's no way you can fail if you don't quit, And then be able be willing to do that. You know, I had to leverage the house and all that stuff from my 1st SBA loan, and my wife was kinda like, well, what happens if, You know, what what happens if it falls apart? I'm like, there's this is not an option. You know? It's just not an option. It's not gonna fall apart.
Eric Pauly01:15:16 - 01:15:49
It just can't. I won't let it. And so having that, I guess, that internal conviction and I would say if you don't have that internal conviction And you can't get it, I wouldn't do it. To be honest, I wouldn't do it. Because if you're not committed at that level, you are setting yourself up for Failure or for you know, like you said, you if you leverage everything to start a business, you ruin your whole family's life. You know, if you're not if you don't have that conviction and that drive and that willingness to throw everything you got at it, then I'd say don't do it.
Wayne Herring01:15:51 - 01:16:08
Great. Well, thank you for all your time, and the Yeah. Thank you. Whole interview has been full of, that insights and things that people could use as encouragement on their journey. So, you really, brought it today, Eric. We appreciate it.
Eric Pauly01:16:08 - 01:16:35
Yeah. If, I can help someone, that's great. I I kinda car compartmentalize everything in my brain. So these are rare opportunities where I actually Speak and think about all the different things at one time. You know? It's usually if I'm in the OPIF crowd, you know, operation, that's My mind is all there. If I'm in the Patriot Roofing, my mind is all there. If I'm in construction zone or the family zone, so this was kinda good for me too. It's a good therapy session for me to go through.
Wayne Herring01:16:36 - 01:16:43
Awesome. Well, good. I'm glad to create the space for you in that way too, Eric. Thanks. Keep going. Go get them, man.
Eric Pauly01:16:43 - 01:16:46
Yeah. Appreciate it. Take care, Wayne. K. Bye bye. Bye.
Wayne Herring01:16:46 - 01:17:00
Thank you for tuning in to the Business Builder Wave podcast. If this episode spoke to you, click that subscribe button and share it with a friend. That's how this message gets out into the world. If it is helpful for us to have a short conversation, I'd love to do that.
Wayne Herring01:17:00 - 01:17:04
Send me an email at Wayne at business builder camp.com.

00:00 Persistence and balance lead to success.

08:10 Company's treatment of employees raises ethical concerns.

12:50 Process-driven approach with rewards for efficiency.

20:53 Selected for TV show, Outlanders, bear hunt experience.

22:41 Veteran finds peace in outdoor camaraderie.

29:46 Formerly heavily involved, now focuses on family.

32:13 Perception of failure turns into fighting spirit.

37:23 Choosing priorities is about internal fire.

46:52 Finding satisfaction in passionate pursuits brings peacefulness.

49:54 Started nonprofit with 4 skilled, unpaid individuals.

58:09 Funding without corporate influence, relies on private donations.

01:02:43 Adopted automatic refund policy, transformed business strategy.

01:05:35 Leading an all-volunteer organization with compassion.

01:14:00 Self-confidence and persistence are key to success.

01:16:08 Rare opportunities for mental compartmentalization and therapy.

1. How did Eric Pauly's disillusionment with the corporate world influence his decision to start Patriot Roofing and Construction, and what lessons can aspiring business builders learn from his experience?

2. What strategies did Eric Pauly employ to transition from being heavily involved in the day-to-day operations of his business to adopting a more hands-off approach? How has this impacted the growth and success of Patriot Roofing and Construction?

3. In what ways has Eric Pauly integrated his passion for hunting and the outdoors into his nonprofit organization, Operation Pay It Forward? How has this unique approach positively impacted the lives of the veterans the organization supports?

4. As an entrepreneur, what has Eric Pauly learned about the importance of building a sustainable business that does not require constant personal involvement? How can this approach help other business builders achieve a healthy work-life balance?

5. How has Eric Pauly's military background shaped his approach to building and operating a business, as well as his commitment to supporting veterans through Operation Pay It Forward?

6. What insights did Eric Pauly share about his approach to scaling Operation Pay It Forward and the impact of the organization's ambassador program on both veterans and the community?

7. Eric Pauly discusses the importance of finding the right individuals to create a distribution system and the impact of patience and thorough planning in entrepreneurship. How can business builders apply these principles to their own ventures?

8. What motivates Eric Pauly's passion for hunting and the outdoors, and how has this passion helped him deal with post-service challenges? How has he incorporated this passion into his nonprofit work and business mindset?

9. In what ways has Eric Pauly's commitment to helping veterans through Operation Pay It Forward reflected his deep personal values and his desire to make a positive impact in the lives of others?

10. How has Eric Pauly's experience of building his dream log home in Southern Utah, combined with his principles of perseverance and goal-setting, translated into valuable lessons for business builders striving for their own success?