Enhancing Productivity: The Growth Journey of Tech Company CEO and Co-Founder Gabe Grifoni

Wayne Herring
00:00:00 - 00:00:40

Business builders. Today, I'm joined on the Business Builder way by Gabe Grafoni. Gabe is the founder of Rufus Labs. And if you're interested, you can find them at getrufus.com, getrufus.com. I met Gabe through a friend that I went to engineering school with back at Bucknell, and he told me about Gabe's ventures in the startup world. Gabe's in LA. He's raised funding through friends and family and through other rounds to facilitate the research development growth team of his wearable technology. So I'm wearing an Oura ring, which is wearable for health.

Wayne Herring
00:00:40 - 00:00:57

Right. But he's doing industrial wearables. So think of like a glove that has a barcode scanner in it. That's used in pick and pack in a warehouse. That's used in not necessarily just big logistics, you know, distribution centers, but might also be used if you have a a

Wayne Herring
00:00:57 - 00:00:58

storeroom of parts and

Wayne Herring
00:00:58 - 00:02:09

manufacturing and where you have a if you have a storeroom of parts and manufacturing and where you have a team that's handling inbound materials, parts, and they're barcoded food, right? What, whatever you can think of, got a barcode where you pick it up and move it, that's what Gabe's company does. I think you're gonna love this episode because we often work with, bootstrappers, but it's really fun to work with people that think of getting outside funding. Gabe's done that. I also like the fact that he's on the cutting edge of research. He talks about some wearable devices that he is using and experimenting with, and I can tell that that helps him spark creativity in the industrial wearable devices that he sells and distributes to the market. The thing Gabe and I talked about was his creative time, his visualization time, how him casting vision ties into getting funding and having investors know about the future and what it is that he's trying to create. Gabe has 14 team members now, and, of course, he's using the outsourced manufacturing. So in some sense, there's a lot of other team members, and he's got a partner network that's helping him get their devices into more distribution centers, logistics centers, food handling facilities, etcetera.

Wayne Herring
00:02:09 - 00:03:19

But he's got those 14 people, And off camera afterwards, what we talked about and what was evident is that he loves those people. He's investing in those people, and he feels like he is, you know, kinda winning the lottery in terms of getting people who are so talented, so hardworking, so dedicated to the mission for the amount of money that he's paying them. And he said, I guess they are just all committed to the vision and the mission that we've cast, and that's certainly true. And the love that he has for those people and how he wants them all to thrive and succeed, I'm sure is what they're feeling and why they wanna work for this guy. So I really encourage you to listen to this all the way through, use it as inspiration for your own leadership, your own casting of vision, and, of course, what he does with the integration of robotics and humans is something that we're all going to have to adapt and and evolve with because it's coming, and we want to be able to use these technologies and our businesses for the benefit of our team so that they can all thrive as well. Enjoy. Hey, Gabe. Welcome to the Business Builder Way.

Gabe Grifoni
00:03:19 - 00:03:22
Hey, Wayne. Thanks for having me. Appreciate, you having me out today.
Wayne Herring
00:03:22 - 00:03:39
Yeah. For sure. So we're gonna talk about Rufus Labs, and we're gonna talk about your work and all the things maybe behind you on the shelf and what you're doing. However, before we got started, you just told me that you have been in a Super Bowl commercial. And so that is, interesting, and I'd love to hear more about that.
Gabe Grifoni
00:03:40 - 00:03:55
Yeah. For sure. So I you know, I've always been driven by whatever really kind of excites me. Money was never a driver for me. It was especially with working in entertainment. Right? Getting that that industry is terrible. Right? But it was like it was exciting, and it was something that I I knew that I just wanted to do. So I had worked as a production assistant.
Gabe Grifoni
00:03:55 - 00:04:26
I was getting, you know, lunches and and things for people and working on TV shows. Moved out to California, started working doing some acting, and I ended up doing a bunch of commercials. I did about, like, I think, 60 over my career doing that. And I think there were 6 that were Super Bowl spots. You know, it was a lot of auditions. It was a lot of going to, you know, calls where you're just in for 30 seconds. You drive an hour in traffic to get there, and you're gone. But these spots, one of them was a they launched the new chocolate M and M, and there was this spot during the Super Bowl where they launched the new chocolate M and M.
Gabe Grifoni
00:04:26 - 00:04:57
I think it was, like, Vanessa Williams did the voice of the M and M or something, but I was in that one. I always played, like, myself a lot, but I was just kinda this dumb guy in the corner who thought this M and M was naked. Right? Because she was chocolate colored. And I was laughing at the fact that I thought she was naked, but that was the kind of premise of the spot. There was, like, an Intel one they had with some robots in it. I did a couple beer ones, one where they built some kind of giant bridge that had collapsed that humans built the bridge to get a bug truck across or something. But, yeah, those were you know, it it was totally different, world from what I'm in now, but it was a lot of fun.
Wayne Herring
00:04:58 - 00:05:21
Yeah. For sure. And and no doubt. Even what you just said about driving an hour to do 30 seconds with no known outcome probably leads to a lot of, positive, things for building a business and just, you know, having failures, but not you viewing it as a failure and keep going and be resilient and just take a risk and all those things. Right?
Gabe Grifoni
00:05:21 - 00:05:49
Yeah. A 100%. It is like if anything is gonna build a thick skin and teach you that 99% of the time you're gonna gonna fail, you know, I I would just say, like, you know, you get punched in the face, like, almost every day, but you just keep doing it. Yeah. That's kinda what it felt like. Right? You're going and doing these things and exhausting yourself. There's a very slim chance anything is gonna work. But, you know, the 10 times they do or the 8 times they do in a year or or over life or whatever it is are worth it, and it's worth that, like, you know, pain and kind of, like, slog that you go through every day.
Gabe Grifoni
00:05:49 - 00:06:00
And it definitely sets up that kind of mental fortitude I feel like you need if you're gonna start a a business and work with a team or do anything because you're you're gonna fail most of the time, but you can't stop. It's that persistence of, like, through failure.
Wayne Herring
00:06:01 - 00:06:41
So Rufus Labs, you and and the company are creating, selling, providing wearable technology for workers who are in warehouses. And where I live here in Pennsylvania, like lots of places, I guess, but we have some big interstates come together. Interstate 81 or state 78 are close by. So we've got some big distribution centers. I have friends who work in distributions for some big national name brands, and I've done some coaching and training work in those local distribution centers. So I've seen workers moving and pulling things off the shelves or sometimes using forklifts, etcetera. So I have a little bit of understanding. It kinda makes sense to me what you're doing.
Wayne Herring
00:06:41 - 00:07:10
We wanna I wanna dig into that a little bit more. But before we get started, the other thing you said, the Super Bowl thing came up, and then you mentioned humans and robots are going to work together more in the future, which, of course, like, that makes sense. And we're all seeing more and more of that all the time. We I go to the local grocery store, and they've got this thing, and it's to go up and down the aisles and detect spills. And his name's Marty. And some people don't like Marty. He beeps and he carries on, but I don't know. I always like to go in and be like, yo, Marty.
Wayne Herring
00:07:10 - 00:07:33
What's up? So that's my image of humans and robots at the moment working together. But say more about that to all of us. Like, we've got landscapers in the business builder audience, farmers, funeral homeowners, Internet marketers, so wide variety of businesses. And it'd be helpful to just, yeah, tell us more about humans and robots working more together and what the actual devices and things that you're creating.
Gabe Grifoni
00:07:34 - 00:07:51
Yeah. No. For sure. Appreciate that. And kinda what seeing, like, Marty, you're talking about in the store. I think that Walmart, years back had, worked with Bossa Nova Robotics. They had made a a machine that went up and down aisles and kinda looked for areas that needed replenishment so it could tell the back of the house to bring out more of this good or that good. Right? It would save time.
Gabe Grifoni
00:07:51 - 00:08:49
But there was a similar kind of vibe from people in the stores of I don't really know if I want this robot walking around me. So I think that got kinda scrapped. And I think we're we're not quite there yet where there's that comfort level of standing side by side with a robot maybe in the front of store, But we're seeing a little bit more in the back of house, in a warehouse where it's not necessarily, you know, integrating with consumers. But the idea of a robot replacing a human doing a lot of manual labor and taking and and doing other kinds of tasks is still pretty far off just because the robots aren't really capable of doing that yet. The infrastructure costs 1,000,000 of dollars to put in, so it's kinda out of the reach for customers, and it still can't quite do everything you need. So for what we see is at least the next 20 years, probably, maybe 2030 are gonna be this kind of delicate balance that I'm speaking from a warehousing perspective of, you know, humans are gonna start seeing robots come in doing what they call goods to person robotics. Right? They do some picking in an aisle as a robot and bring it over to an area where a human is stationary. They don't have to walk around as much, but there's still interaction between the 2.
Gabe Grifoni
00:08:49 - 00:09:34
So we're gonna see that robots need to know who and where a human is and vice versa so that they can work together. So that's what we really see is, like, coordinating this dance between the 2. And for us, we're looking at human automation is kind of what what we look at. Right? How do we make humans connected to automation, to robots in the warehouse? How do we make them hands free and more efficient, essentially, kind of bring not human and machine, but, you know, where there's pieces, there's tech in them. But on them, stuff like that makes sense. Right? How do we connect them to technology? So we build devices that replace existing old technology they might hold in their hands. It freezes up their hands, and then we gather a bunch of data as they're moving around a warehouse doing things, and then we can connect them to things like robots if they have to do any kind of goods to person picking and working together.
Wayne Herring
00:09:35 - 00:09:45
Gotcha. So tell us a bit more about the actual device, and it's on my hand. So instead of holding a scanner, I'm wearing it like a glove, I I think, if I could
Gabe Grifoni
00:09:45 - 00:10:05
So Yeah. There's a few ways. It's basically like, so we have a laser scanners, and then we have kinda Android tablet and handheld devices that connect to them, and that's where the screen would be for whatever system they're running saying, go pick this item and go do that. That's worn on the wrist usually or maybe mounted on a forklift, and then they're wearing a glove or a ring. We have a little tiny, you know, module picture
Wayne Herring
00:10:05 - 00:10:06
under that.
Gabe Grifoni
00:10:06 - 00:10:36
Yeah. There you go. So we have that that red scanner on top of the glove. There is the little modular piece that slides out, and that can go into lots of different glove styles. So we have, a top 5 food distributor in in the in the world that uses our devices in cold storage. So they might wear a glove that goes over another glove like that one you see in the middle picture there. And then we have thinner gloves that cover part of the hand that maybe are used more on a retail or, an area where you don't need gloves for cold storage and it's not you know, it's ambient temperature. Right? Or there's a ring.
Gabe Grifoni
00:10:36 - 00:11:16
It depends on how the users wanna wear it. We build everything modular so workers can pick whatever works best for them to do their particular job. There's lots of different jobs in the warehouse from put away to receiving, pick and pack, order fulfillment, and pallet break down. Depending on the job, it might require a different wearable. So having the ability to be modular and swap things and move them around is part of the platform, and you'll see a boost right away. Like, if you're in any store and you see someone scanning, they're gonna have those brick on a stick, $3,000, you know, scanners with keypads on them. Right? Replacing those, moving it to their hands, you'll automatically see about a 10 to 20% boost in productivity just freeing up workers' hands in a job. They need to pick things up and move them.
Gabe Grifoni
00:11:16 - 00:11:42
And then over time, as we learn where workers are spending their time and where we can maybe find inefficiencies and move it back into direct task time, over time, our system will learn where those inefficiencies are and help point them out so you continue to get improvements in workflow. So we see customers Imart Express is is a customer that's seen, I think, over 50% boost in pick rates and productivity over time with just going to wearables and then being able to use our system on tracking labor and improving their their workflows.
Wayne Herring
00:11:44 - 00:12:15
Got it. So I I'm just I'm pulling the screen back up again for anybody that's listening, and I I see a video on your web page, which is, like, scanners dot get rufus.com is is where I'm at right now. And there's this video, which I love explainer videos like this. We're seeing there's a promise, right, or a testimony. We're seeing one associate do the work of 3 with Rufus wearables, and I think you've already started to answer that. But how is that? How does that promise come to fruition? 1 associate do the work of 3.
Gabe Grifoni
00:12:15 - 00:12:45
Yes. I mean, our sales ability is based on numbers. Right? And that's how we do things. Right? We get customers out in the demo. We know what their pick rates are now. They start using our system. They can see that improvement right away on a dashboard and the metrics that we provide and know they're able to do that job. So like I said, right away, if they're going from paper or handheld, which is pretty much everyone's on handheld, if they're going to a wearable, they're gonna instantly see around that 15% improvement in pick rates right away, and workers are able to do their jobs better.
Gabe Grifoni
00:12:45 - 00:13:13
It makes the metrics we provide to workers too. They see a live view of where their rates are on a speedometer. Right? So I know I just hit my goal. Maybe I get an alert through the Work Hero system. Rufus, we our platform is called Work Hero, that says, hey. You just hit your goal of 1,000 items picked per day or 20 orders shipped or whatever that is. So we motivate workers and let them know where they're doing because these workers are paid. If they're the top pickers, they get the front spot in the warehouse if they're the picker of the month.
Gabe Grifoni
00:13:13 - 00:14:00
There's a lot of pride in these kind of jobs and being these top pickers so much so that, like, you know, it it's a fight to keep pickers in your warehouse. There's poaching that goes on, and eating talent is really important. So that's another area of focus for us too. If you've got the best technology and workers can do their jobs better and they're happier doing their jobs, you're gonna retain them. So our technology also allows worker to feel like they're an iron man or a superhuman in the warehouse. It's that empowering feeling of doing your job better and faster and kind of being half human, half machine is a big win for us too with workers. We focus on how do we make the workers' lives easier. That that's the way we win deals is we just do everything in our platform to make they're frustrated if something isn't working, if a barcode doesn't scan, if they have to spend 8 seconds waiting for something and their pick rate goes down.
Gabe Grifoni
00:14:00 - 00:14:08
Like, that that 8 seconds matters. Every fraction of a second, it matters in the warehouse, and that's what we really focus on is making that better for everyone involved in the process, the better experience.
Wayne Herring
00:14:09 - 00:14:54
So you're on the business builder way, and business builders are another way of saying business owner, entrepreneur, founder. So the the idea of wearables I'm wearing a Oura ring, so tracking sleep, tracking stress, tracking resiliency now. So I guess wearables aren't really that odd, right, in the world we're in. I've worn a continuous glucose monitor for 2 weeks to just get a sense for when I eat things, when I exercise, what happens with glucose spikes, and the and and the ultimate wearable because, of course, it's, like, in my pocket all the time is this iPhone that I have or Android or whatever whatever you've got. Do you use any wearables like that personally?
Gabe Grifoni
00:14:54 - 00:15:23
Yeah. Personally, I have an Apple Watch. So as a consumer, I'm big into the Apple system. Right? Once you have one of the devices, they all kinda connect, and you're in there. Right? So I love my watch for a multitude of reasons to keep me on time for things, to send me alerts for meetings. Another wearable I just got that I am 5050 on I'm an early adopter, so, you know, I was online for the first iPhone at 3 in the morning, and I went on sale at 5 PM that day. But I just got this thing called an AI pin. It's made by a company called Humane, and it is a little, like, almost like a Star Trek communicator pin.
Gabe Grifoni
00:15:23 - 00:15:38
Right? And it's a a very strong magnet. You just put on the back, slap it on here. It has and I use it. It's pretty cool. It has, an AI camera that looks out, and you can say, hey. You know, what's the nutritional value of this? It'll see what you have in your hand. You can ask it questions. It's not tied to your phone or anything.
Gabe Grifoni
00:15:38 - 00:15:53
It also has a really cool, like, laser display. If you hold your hand in front of you, it projects the display of a kind of a screen. You use your hand, like, tilting it and going like this to, like, select things. So that's the newest kind of where I've been playing with my, like, little AI pin, my communicator pin.
Wayne Herring
00:15:54 - 00:16:04
Good. And you're I didn't say this, but you're a California guy. So, of course, you're on the leading edge of this back here in Penn, Kentucky. Takes us a little bit longer to learn about those things. So that's cool. It's been for that.
Gabe Grifoni
00:16:04 - 00:16:20
It's been super early. I don't know if I was like a regular consumer. If I'd buy this yet, it overheats on me all the time when I'm using it. It says your AI pin is hot. It needs to cool down and turn it off. So that not good so far, but it's a really cool concept. But, yeah, those are the wearables I think I'm using now.
Wayne Herring
00:16:21 - 00:16:53
Nice. So we we talked a little about what it does and the wearable and how it works. Who is your ideal customer? So, we've got a Lowe's distribution center, PetSmart. I got a friend that works for a big tire distribution company. These are big distribution centers. Also, I have a guy we connected through a mutual friend, Elo Comfort. I went to Bucknell with him, and and Elo and I both knew this guy named Jerry. Jerry works in he's worked in distribution and logistics, but he's now working for a little bit of a smaller company.
Wayne Herring
00:16:53 - 00:18:00
And they've got warehouses, distribution centers that are a bit smaller, and they cite those coincident with regional airports. So not Philadelphia International, but like Harrisburg here in Pennsylvania would be a place where they would have a little, distribution center with maybe 3 or 4 people in there picking out paints, industrial paints, and airplane parts. So that that's kind of the range when I think of distribution. Although no. You know what? I know somebody that has a business locally where they call it EcoShip, I think, and they're doing shipping using more environmentally friendly materials, and they do fulfillment for people who have smaller companies ala, like, Tim Ferris, 4 Hour Workweek, and they come up with some kind of a smaller you know, or it it may not be a smaller item, but I'm saying they they've got a smaller company, and they're using computing power and then computing power and then outsource pick and pack and shipping. And so they have a variety. You know, they've probably got 100 a couple 100 of companies that are in there with, you know, certain number of racks, etcetera. So who's your customer within all of that? Or maybe I haven't even hit it.
Wayne Herring
00:18:00 - 00:18:01
I don't know.
Gabe Grifoni
00:18:01 - 00:18:39
I mean, basically everyone. So our ICP, like, our ideal customer profile, I mean, from a high level is anyone that's scanning a barcode, anyone that's moving good. So we have kind of 3 different verticals, I guess, of customers. We're agnostic to the vertical because, you know, people don't, I think, even spend the time to to realize that logistics is such a huge underpinning of not just, like, when you order something, it comes to your door. Right? And that's gonna be most of it. Right? But then there's companies like Thermo Fisher Scientific is one of our earliest customers, medical device manufacturer. They're shipping goods between facilities to other direct to b b to b, not direct to consumer. So 3PLs are gonna be our top level of customers.
Gabe Grifoni
00:18:39 - 00:19:17
So customers like a j group, e shipper place, e e shipper plus, elite fulfillment services, customers that have 10, 20, a 100 brands under their umbrella that they ship goods for those brands, multiple facilities that use our devices. They have eyes into every facility once they're using our devices in terms of what humans doing, what, where to any time. So that's great for those kinds of customers. And, again, improving that time and and reducing labor. Then our second level is retail and ecom. So J. Jill, their big distribution center in New Hampshire runs all of our tech, one of our oldest customers. Then I'm in Thermo Fisher 2 first two or three customers we had on, and they've just renewed their 3 years.
Gabe Grifoni
00:19:17 - 00:20:01
So I'm very excited about that. But, yeah, retail customers. And then the 3rd tier is gonna be those Thermo Fisher Integra Biosciences customers that are in manufacturing. They have goods, physical goods that they're moving between facilities or to other businesses, even aerospace men automobile manufacturers when there's parts. Anything that has a barcode and inventory that has to be tractive, which is the underpinning of any business with the physical good is pretty much our customer. And from size, we have SMB, small medium business customers that have 5 to 10 pickers in the facility on the small end. Like, those are there. We have medium range, and then we have we're just closing, like I mentioned, 5 food distributor in the world with dozens of facilities here in in North America.
Gabe Grifoni
00:20:01 - 00:20:11
So kind of rent runs the gamut. You'll see an improvement anywhere. So everyone you talked about there excites me because they're all potential customers. If there's a warehouse and barcodes, then they're a they're a potential partner.
Wayne Herring
00:20:11 - 00:20:31
Got it. So let's talk a little bit about your business builder journey. What and maybe you've been a serial entrepreneur. I don't know. I didn't ask you that ahead of time. Maybe this is your first venture, but, like, how did how did this start? When did the kind of the idea bubble on a cartoon when we were kids? They'd be like, ding. Somebody has an idea. When did this idea start? How did it get going? Yeah.
Wayne Herring
00:20:31 - 00:20:32
Show your journey.
Gabe Grifoni
00:20:32 - 00:21:16
Yeah. So this idea started, like, a decade ago. I ended up going to CES because it's a consumer electronic show in Vegas. I had a background in tech, and I had kind of gone away from that with all my entertainment side, but I started working on writing that was tech focused. So my writing side and and my tech side kinda came together, and I got a free pass to CES because I had enough, you know, kind of press and following to be able to get a free pass. I went, and I just kinda saw an area. I was like, there's really a missing area of wearable technology before the Apple Watch was made, and it was I think Pebble maybe was the only kind of smartwatch that existed if anyone remembers that with the e ink display. Ending that story was not very good for Pebble, but they had a great rise while they were going.
Gabe Grifoni
00:21:16 - 00:21:48
But on the ride home 4 hours back from Vegas, I was like, I bet I could build a better wearable. And I just kind of imagined how that would look and work and feel on that 4 hour car ride because it's one of my favorite places to be in the car alone where I can stop whenever I want and no one bothers me. I can put my phone on airplane mode. It's one of the only places I get peace and quiet and long rides. So I like those car rides. Anywhere under 6 to 9 hours, I usually drive. I've done day trips, you know, 6 hours there and back each way. But, anyway, driving home, had this idea, called a few friends who were people I went, to school with and knew were smarter than me.
Gabe Grifoni
00:21:48 - 00:22:20
I said, hey. I wanna start this business. I wanna build a wearable. I wanna move everything out of the pockets onto this device. Bought a 3 d printer with money we all chipped in together, and I learned AutoCAD by not sleeping for 5 nights and watching YouTube videos and teaching myself how to build a 3 d model and start printing. And then little time later, we got to a prototype, and we were always on the consumer side. Right? We can build something that moves everything out of the pocket. It was a widescreen wearable that was like a sexy kind of stretched out Apple Watch, like futuristic, very kinda like fallout kind of thing.
Gabe Grifoni
00:22:20 - 00:23:09
And we got the attention from a very large retailer, and they said, hey. Can you fly out to our facility and show us what you've built? We have some ideas of how that might help us in the warehouse. And that for us was eye opening because I got a peek behind the the curtain of one of the biggest brands out there in the world, how this could be helpful in their warehouses. And that made us think what? We're gonna scrap everything, focus on enterprise, rebuild everything from the hardware from the ground up in 8 months, and focus on rugged devices for industry and then build software that helps make that better. Right? And that's kinda how the journey began. It was had an idea that sparked something else. And as startup and as an entrepreneur, you should always be pivoting and listen to your customers. We build everything by listening to our customers, and it's really it's that why not the what and why we do things.
Gabe Grifoni
00:23:09 - 00:23:14
And that opened up the the door for us and been listening ever since. That's kinda how we got here.
Wayne Herring
00:23:15 - 00:23:17
And what year was that, the Consumer Electronics Show?
Gabe Grifoni
00:23:18 - 00:24:01
That was I think I went in 2013, and then we probably launched some stuff in 2014 once we spent time building things and raising a little bit of money from friends and family on building a prototype widescreen smartwatch that never existed before. And I'm so glad we ended up on the consumer side, though, by the way, because I love my Apple Watch. It's a race to the bottom on that consumer side. And this is a device that has a reason for being. Right? It's not an accessory or a choice of, like, do I want this or not? This has a legitimate helpful use case for people in the in the workforce, and that, like, drives us, and it's so exciting to be doing that. So very thankful how we ended up on this path and and listened to the universal way. Right?
Wayne Herring
00:24:02 - 00:24:05
Who was employee number 2, or what position, and what did they do?
Gabe Grifoni
00:24:06 - 00:24:46
So aside from me and, like, the few friends that I I brought in 3 friends as cofounders, so those are kind of the the first group, but the real people we hired. So Easton, who's now our head of growth, hired as a intern for free because we couldn't afford anything out of USC and has been here ever since. You know, we've been really lucky that we hired people, you know, out of school who probably don't keep jobs for more than a year or 2 and move that are super loyal and dedicated to the mission. And everyone here who's on board has a vested interest in the company, so they wanna see it succeed too because they're all gonna win out of it. So I think Easton was our real employee number 2, and then Trent, who's our VP of engineering now who runs all of our projects along with our CTO. First two hires.
Wayne Herring
00:24:46 - 00:25:00
We're talking about COVID period and work from home, and you were saying sometimes you're on the phone at 3 AM with China, with manufacturing. And so with all that, do you have a physical office, now?
Gabe Grifoni
00:25:00 - 00:25:33
We do have a physical office. We have inventory, our scanners, and stuff that we have to keep. It's about a mile away. I always like to pick something I can walk to, and our operations head is in there most of the time getting demo shipments, orders out the door, and sometimes we have meetings there. But for the most part, we are on stand ups every day at 9 with engineering on Zoom. Our team is pretty remote now. About 50% here in LA, and now we have team in North Carolina, Maryland, Kansas City, San Diego, kind of all over, which is nice to help customers on the East Coast. We have some team out there now too, so it's on those hours.
Wayne Herring
00:25:34 - 00:26:09
And I I I have a whiteboard over there off to my left, and I often think of business builders creating. My daughter's an artist too. So I have her art her artist hanging up, and then I got this whiteboard, and I think you are creating on the canvas of business. Right? And so if you were to paint the picture of the company, you got that, I like that, a mile away, always being able to walk. And then you have these first few hires, and their people are remote and a stand up. Who else is in that picture? Like, how many people are working at Rufus now? What are the different functions of what they're doing?
Gabe Grifoni
00:26:10 - 00:26:42
Yeah. So we have 14 full time right now. About half the team is engineering. So we have an Android side, a database of AI and machine learning kind of side art. CTO was the former CTO of Napster. I was lucky enough to, like, be his neighbor. We became really good friends, and I finally stole him away from the last job he was at working at a music app here in California and got him to work, here. And he's got a background actually in logistics and AI and machine learning, so it's kinda perfect for where we see a lot of warehousing going in the future with, you know, those abilities and stuff.
Gabe Grifoni
00:26:42 - 00:27:17
And then the other half of the team is, sales and operations. So getting things out the door, we've got a sales team with a background in logistics that were pretty scrappy. And I've always since I would have probably never got I don't know who would hire me. It's I had to give myself a job, basically. So that mindset of, you know, if you really put your mind to something, even though you've never done done it before, you know, if if you're really help bent on getting that done, that's a mindset that I look for. When when I hired, like, Trent, who's our VP of engineering, like, he had an engineering degree from UCLA, but no one had hired him 6 months after he graduated. And I was like, this guy is great. Like, maybe on paper there's things, but he has the right attitude.
Gabe Grifoni
00:27:17 - 00:27:52
Right? He's the one of the best hires we have. One of my buddies who's an actor, director, and I was like, yo, you're working part time, right, in in a wine shop. Like, why not do this and learn b to b sales? Have you ever done it before? No. But he's phenomenal. Closed deals already and was having customer deals closing in customer deals closing in 60 to 90 days after starting. So putting the team together has always been really interesting in finding people that either having it in a background in what they're doing or have no reason to do that job, but they just have the right attitude. And then you wanna put them in there and see them succeed, like, they get to pick their own path. So that's how we built out the team.
Gabe Grifoni
00:27:52 - 00:27:56
It's a really dedicated and strong team with some pretty diverse skills.
Wayne Herring
00:27:56 - 00:28:35
Yeah. That's great. So you mentioned, a habit of yours, a creative habit, which is driving in the car and being willing to do somewhat longer drives than maybe so some people think about getting a plane ticket, but you're like, hey. Anything up to 6 hours is actually a really good time for me. Airplane mode, I could stop and get a journal or laptop out or whatever you do. Are you the visionary in the company? And do you think, like, 3 years out or 10 years out, or is it 1, like, 1 year? How is your vision created and then nurtured, and how does that work for you?
Gabe Grifoni
00:28:36 - 00:29:15
Yeah. I mean, I do spend a lot of time thinking a lot of years out. We kinda have to at least from, you know, even an investor standpoint. Right? Like, yeah, everyone wants to know what you're doing today, but they wanna know, like, what's the plan for when robots are here? What's all that? So, you know, but that plan is always shifting and changing. There have been a lot of companies that have done things too soon, and everyone's not ready for it. There's a company called Daqri that used to exist out here in LA, d a q r I, and they made this really cool helmet for industry that I actually have one of my garage. It was a $10,000 helmet when they ended up going out of out of business and shutting down. A friend of mine bought a bunch for a dollar each and gave me one, and it has, like, a thermal imaging sensor.
Gabe Grifoni
00:29:15 - 00:29:47
I could look through walls with it. It's really cool, but they had built this thing. It was so early, but they were thinking about that. Right? You kinda have to be thinking about what is the thing I wanna build, but is the world also ready for it? Right? Like, there's a lot of technologies. Like, vision picking is something we talk about in robots, but we're just not at the place where it's gonna work yet in the real world. It's not there yet. So you have to be thinking of it, but you also have to be short term. Like, what are the things my customers need today that will work and that they can buy right now? So we're always kind of on that line of what's in the future, but, like, no one's gonna buy that today.
Gabe Grifoni
00:29:47 - 00:30:23
Right? We we wouldn't be alive if we were building things that were the future. We have to be kind of building both and thinking about that. So my focus is really on product, and team here. The operations and the sales side, I obviously have to be on, but I can't wait till we have some more resources and people who can focus on that because those are things I really enjoy. Especially now that we've been growing our partner network, you kinda ask who's on the team. We now have over 30 partners, including, like, Brother Mobile is now a printer. Some other names I can't discuss yet, but we have a lot of partners and thinking of how we integrate with that bigger ecosystem. Right? Because everyone's a piece of the puzzle in the warehouse.
Gabe Grifoni
00:30:23 - 00:30:36
And for the customer to have the best experience, you wanna, like, seamlessly be able to connect robots and humans and whatever else needs to be in there. So thinking ahead of how we're gonna work with those partners and support the future too is is a big part of the process.
Wayne Herring
00:30:37 - 00:30:44
Do you go anywhere to or is it these car rides? Or do you, like, schedule 2 day Gabe retreats or anything like that or what?
Gabe Grifoni
00:30:44 - 00:30:51
I try to block off time on my calendar if I really want to because I I get booked for too many things between
Wayne Herring
00:30:51 - 00:30:52
customers and our guests.
Gabe Grifoni
00:30:52 - 00:31:05
Yeah. Yeah. No. Yeah. Exactly. It looks like internal meetings or there's a million MSAs and deals going around that I have to review. So I do have to block off time, and I will take some time. Like, I have, luxury of having a yard here in LA.
Gabe Grifoni
00:31:05 - 00:31:30
I'll do some yard work. I'll go out and do some planting for a half an hour, mow the the lawn, do some hedge trimming. On the weekends, I'm never really off either. People don't bother me, so I do try to find time, but I got a family. So it's like I got a 6 year old. It's hard to find time too. A lot of times at night after 9 or so, ten, I'll stay up sometimes till 1 or 2 in the morning, or sometimes I can't sleep at 2 or 3, and I brainstorm them when it's completely quiet. Not as much time as I used to have.
Gabe Grifoni
00:31:30 - 00:31:35
I used to have a lot more time blocked off, and, yeah, I need more time.
Wayne Herring
00:31:35 - 00:31:53
I'm glad you brought up the trees. We talked about we talked about family and integrating and how y'all are in the the same house and you're, working from there. Right? And then and and we talked about how I'd been out in the lawnmower just before I get on. So thanks for sharing about the trees in your California backyard and how that's part of your rhythm.
Gabe Grifoni
00:31:54 - 00:32:09
Right? Oh, it's real nice. Like, in the middle of the day, we got it's kumquat season right now, so I just pop a few kumquats in the middle of the day while I'm working. We've got plums and figs, peaches. There's a bunch of stuff with grapes. So there's always something to kinda eat and get my hands dirty with out there.
Wayne Herring
00:32:09 - 00:32:36
So with what you just said about waking up and then, like, 3 AM calls and everything, I'm gonna work to kinda land the plane in our conversation here and and get to an ending, but I'm interested in okay. So you got this little piece of property of that. You have these calls and time to think, and you wake up and 6 year olds and dogs. What kind of, like, agreements do you make? You and, a 6 year old I don't I don't know if it's son or daughter.
Gabe Grifoni
00:32:36 - 00:32:39
Oh, yeah. Atticus. He's a he's a boy. Atticus.
Wayne Herring
00:32:39 - 00:32:57
So you, your husband, Atticus, dogs, who the dogs, we can't really talk about. Although, I know my dogs come up to me, and they actually want like, they make it clear. They want playtime or whatever. Percent. What kind of agreements do you make in your home about when I'm working or why or how so that everybody's on the same page?
Gabe Grifoni
00:32:57 - 00:33:28
There's certain hours during the day, like, if Atticus is home early, and and I've still got calls throughout the day. You know, we make agreements of, like, hey. You can do this for a half an hour or watch this PBS show or play Mario Kart while I do this call, and then we'll do something for 30 minutes here. We'll go out and get a coffee, or we'll do something in the yard. So it's kinda balancing that time and then, also figuring out, like, you know, between me and my husband who has meetings when who can hang with him. So we kind of sometimes plot out our schedule. We keep a dry erase board of the days of the week on the fridge where if we need to
Wayne Herring
00:33:28 - 00:33:30
Dry erase board. That's good. Yeah.
Gabe Grifoni
00:33:30 - 00:33:58
Yep. Yeah. The one of the first things I I did everywhere in our early lab was paint dry erase board walls. I got that paint and, like, covered entire walls in it because I like to write things all over the place. And I even did in our house secret spots with dry erase paint instead of the white paint so I can write on the mantle of the fireplace and the banister top. Okay. But, yeah, we just kind of you know, and I do try to force myself to take time. Right? If there's, like in the afternoon, because a lot of our customers are East Coast at 3, it might slow down a little bit.
Gabe Grifoni
00:33:58 - 00:34:13
So from 3 to 4, maybe I block off, and I can just walk the dogs, hang with Atticus, and do a little and maybe it's soccer practice for that hour. But I still haven't figured out the perfect way to balance everything being at home with an entire family now and not having that office separation all the time. So
Wayne Herring
00:34:13 - 00:35:00
It it's something I've been working on lately that I've had. I I've been a business coach and consultant now for going on 11 years. And for kids and all this and COVID, like you said, and it's this year that I've realized I I need to do some work on that being clear. So today, I know for sure, like, when my youngest daughter gets home, the plan is 4 at at at 4, we are going to make we got a blue apron box meal, which every now and then is cool. They're kind of expensive, but kinda cool and easy. And she and I are gonna cook together. But for years, I did not do a great job of and also my wife was home full time. Whereas now she's a full time teacher, and she's making it, an impact in our community in in that way.
Wayne Herring
00:35:00 - 00:35:09
So trying trying to rebalance and be intentional about that is it's work. It's a process much like innovating with, Rufus Labs. Right? Yeah.
Gabe Grifoni
00:35:09 - 00:35:24
It definitely takes time to to figure that out. We do the cooking things too. We just did hungry root, which I just tried that subscription. They're hopefully, customer pretty soon. That's why I wanted to try them out because they're Gotcha. Demo. And, yeah, we do the same kind of thing. I'll block off some time, and we'll do some cooking or whatever.
Gabe Grifoni
00:35:24 - 00:35:47
You kinda have to do that. And it's right. It seems like this year too, I'm in the same spot of, like, you know, we got shaken up by this COVID thing. Now we're all working from home. There's school, and it's all blended. And now it's become, like, kind of a regular thing. Now I feel like it's putting the pieces together of how do I carve out the time because they're, my home is my office, so I'm always in my office 24 hours a day now, basically.
Wayne Herring
00:35:47 - 00:36:30
So I'm gonna ask one more question. Wanna explore one more little thing, and then we'll we'll get some contact info if people wanna get in touch with you. So the the other question I have, I know that you've raised funding. You talked about funding during like, and how it ties to doing vision and people wanna know your vision. I tend to work with a lot of bootstrappers, Gabe, and people that don't raise funding, but they think about it, and some of them would be interested. So that would be a whole another call to really get into that. But a question sometimes I pose to a bootstrapper, somebody in a more established type of business like landscaping, which still leaves room for lots of innovation and lots of ways to get ahead of the curve, but it's a traditional business model. Sometimes the question a good coaching question poses, let's pretend you got $1,000,000.
Wayne Herring
00:36:30 - 00:37:02
Let's pretend you got $1,000,000. You weren't allowed to just take it. Right? So that's off the table. But you have to put that $1,000,000 to work such that you'd be able to prove a return on investment. What you do with that $1,000,000? So what is that like in your company? What have you done? What are you doing in terms of raising funding? And you really have had to approach a question like that. Maybe it's not a million, maybe it's a $100, maybe it's $30 in the beginning. But how does that vision and the getting money, how does that come together for you?
Gabe Grifoni
00:37:02 - 00:37:43
Like, the vision is is bigger at different times in the story too. So your vision is, this is what I'm thinking today, then I learn more. And now my vision is this because I know there's this bigger puzzle or piece there. So the vision, I think, is kind of also dependent on where you are and what stage you are as a company. But one of the first things we do when we raise money, a lot of it is going back into the team. Like, that's one of the biggest assets we have here. So if I'd say percentage wise, whenever we do raise money or if someone gave us a $1,000,000, we'd probably spend half of it on bringing in a team because being able to support the customer is gonna be I mean, and this is in our business. I think a lot of businesses, one of the the reasons why people stay.
Gabe Grifoni
00:37:43 - 00:38:17
They feel like you're listening to them, and they're being taken care of. So putting money into your team and the right team and enough people to support those customers, that's one of the biggest things I think you can put money back into when you do get money. Obviously, marketing. My background is in marketing and in coding, so I'm a little bit I spend those sides there. And a lot of people, when they're first making cuts, cut marketing, or maybe they don't put as much value in it. But brand recognition and getting your name out there are the reasons customers feel comfortable with you too. When we first started, we had big brands that said, I don't know who you are. You're new.
Gabe Grifoni
00:38:17 - 00:39:01
I I don't hear about you. Like, having your name out there over time and building reputation, whether it be on marketing spend or case studies with your customers, putting money into those kind of brand building efforts, I think, is really important. And then product listening. Again, you have to listen to your customers, and that's how you should build your product. You your best guesses are gonna be probably 80% wrong because you think you know what this person needs. Right? Until you actually get in there and this person says, I do need it, but it it needs to be this way. Or I don't need that at all, but what I can really use is this. So I'd say putting money in product and listening to your customers, reinvesting in your team, and then spending time on your brand are probably the areas I'd I'd put that money into.
Gabe Grifoni
00:39:01 - 00:39:06
No matter where you are in the story, those are the parts that are gonna help, you know, hopefully, get you a strong foundation and keep customers.
Wayne Herring
00:39:07 - 00:39:47
That's a key part of the conversation I know I'm gonna go back and relisten to because what you just said will be helpful, you know, to me. I I wanna say even to me. Of course, it'll be helpful to me. I'm building this community of business owners, and the voice of the customer there is super important to ask people what's working about our mastermind group and the things I offer and what's not. So thank you for that, and I know that'll be helpful to other people as well. Hey. If if somebody is listening and we hope that this happens and they've got 5 or 10 pickers or they've got bar codes and they're like, maybe I could use this, What's the first step with having a conversation with you and your team? How do they get in touch with you? How do they learn more about you, Gabe?
Gabe Grifoni
00:39:47 - 00:40:10
Yeah. The first step is you can go to get rufus.com and sign up for a demo on our website. It's free demos. We ship you the hardware. You test it out. Use it for 30 days, 60 days. You'll start to see the returns, and then you kind of it's a no brainer. We've never really lost on the commercials in terms of the amount you'd spend on other devices or hardware that doesn't have all the features or built in kind of labor reporting and and those elements that are important to us.
Gabe Grifoni
00:40:10 - 00:40:38
You can call 866 get Rufus, which I think is 438-7838. And those are ways to just get, onto our team. As soon as you submit a demo request, you'll get a calendar link and be able to go through our process of getting on a call. We can learn about your ops. It's really about that first call is, what do you do right now? What are you looking to improve, and can we help you? Right? We we wanna wanna make sure we can help you first. Otherwise, we can refer you to someone else who might be able to do things, but just getting on and learning about you is the first step.
Wayne Herring
00:40:38 - 00:40:52
Awesome. So get Rufus, which is getrufus.com. It's great. Gabe, thanks so much for showing up and sharing your story and more about life and vision and how you create. It's been a really great conversation.
Gabe Grifoni
00:40:52 - 00:41:00
Yeah. Awesome. I really appreciate it. Thank you very much for having me, and I'm always happy to answer any questions. Or if any of your other, members of your community have questions on things, I'm happy
Wayne Herring
00:41:00 - 00:41:05
to get in touch. Awesome. Go get them. Thanks. Thanks. Have a good day.

00:00 Gabe's company manufactures barcoded food handling devices.

04:26 Actor discusses past commercial work in detail.

07:51 Consumer discomfort limits integration of robots in stores.

10:36 Modular wearables improve productivity in warehouse jobs.

13:13 Valuing pride, technology, and worker retention in warehouses.

16:53 Warehouses, distribution centers with eco-friendly shipping.

22:20 Large retailer's interest led to major pivot.

24:06 Small team with dedicated, loyal employees.

28:36 Investors think long-term, not just short-term.

29:47 Focus on product, team, and partner network.

35:47 Inquiring about funding and innovation in business.

37:02 Vision evolves with time and company growth.

40:10 Contact 866-RUFUS to join our team.

1. How do you think Gabe Grifoni's background in the entertainment industry influenced his approach to entrepreneurship and building Rufus Labs?

2. Can you elaborate on the challenges and benefits of managing a decentralized team across multiple locations, as discussed by Gabe Grifoni?

3. In what ways do you believe the balance between work and family life impacts an entrepreneur's success, as highlighted in the conversation between Gabe and Wayne?

4. How important do you find Gabe's emphasis on investing in the team, marketing, brand building, and product evolution for a company's growth and success?

5. What role do you think innovation, vision, and adaptability play in the success of a startup, particularly in the wearable technology industry as exemplified by Rufus Labs?

6. How do you view the potential impact of wearable technology, such as Rufus wearables, on increasing productivity and efficiency in warehouse operations based on the examples shared in the episode?

7. In what ways do you relate to the concept of human-robot collaboration in the workplace, considering the fears and challenges highlighted by Gabe Grifoni?

8. How do you think Gabe's experience with early consumer wearable technology products shaped the evolution of Rufus Labs into focusing on industrial wearables for warehouse applications?

9. How do you perceive the importance of mindset and attitude when hiring team members, even over traditional qualifications and experience, in the context of building a successful company?

10. Consider Gabe's journey from attending CES in 2013 to founding Rufus Labs and the company's evolution. What lessons do you think aspiring entrepreneurs can learn from this entrepreneurial journey?