Innovative Recruitment: Andy McCartney's Strategy for Engaging Next-Generation Engineers

Wayne Herring00:00:00 - 00:01:08
Here's what I want you to really listen for in this episode and why you should listen to it. Andy McCartney is somebody who I met through LinkedIn, and he is a second generation family owner of a machine shop in Ohio. There were other owners prior to his dad. But what I love about Andy and what I learned in this episode is that he's created a very unique recruiting program. He's put together a program where they go out to schools, and they hire mechanical engineering graduates to come and work in the machine shop to actually get dirty and build cool stuff. And you're gonna hear about how he runs that program, kind of, from beginning to end. Why people come work there. How it energizes some of his more mature staff, older staff, people that have been there for a while, and how he's able to get the best and brightest from the engineering schools, particularly the best and brightest in the context of those who would be his right fit, his right people who actually wanna learn the how to build things, not just how to put it on paper.
Wayne Herring00:01:08 - 00:01:47
Having been an engineer, civil engineering, starting my career in construction, I really appreciated this approach. And I think a lot of times that people in trades or people in machine shop like this, think that, you know, goodness, there's there's a labor shortage, which there is. We know that. And and you're not quite sure what to do about it. Well, Andy found something to do about it, and I think you're going to have your creativity and your imagination to spark. So I hope you give the whole episode a listen. Hey, business builders. I'm joined today by Andy McCartney, and Andy is the president and owner of Bowden Manufacturing, and he is in the Cleveland, Ohio area.
Wayne Herring00:01:47 - 00:01:51
Andy, thanks for joining us today to tell your story on the Business Builder way.
Andy McCartney00:01:51 - 00:01:53
Oh, Wayne. Happy to be here. Thanks for having me.
Wayne Herring00:01:53 - 00:02:27
Yeah, for sure. For anybody watching the video, I'm gonna I have your website pulled up in the background and it's really solid. And there's some things here that I'd like to share with people. So I probably will pull that up, but I'll we'll verbally kinda describe what's on the screen. So if somebody's listening, they're not lost and feeling like, you know, they're not not part of it. But the first thing I like to do, Andy, is, like, tell us a bit about how things are now. Tell us about the business that you're operating and what's going on in that, and that'll be a place where I can tie into some things I see on the website in the background.
Andy McCartney00:02:27 - 00:03:08
Sure thing. So we're a a CNC machine shop. Again, as you said, in the Cleveland area, about 50 machines, about 50 people working here on 3 shifts. We do a lot. We're aerospace certified, so we do a lot of, stuff that requires that level of certification. During the pandemic, the aerospace stuff took a really big hit early on, and a couple of our biggest customers laid off, you know, 85 plus percent of the people because nobody was flying. And then a year later, everybody had all this pent up desire to fly, and so they're trying to rebuild their staff and, you know, what most of us think is the worst labor market we've experienced in forever. And so they are still struggling to build that labor market back up as are many of us.
Andy McCartney00:03:08 - 00:03:55
And so, you know, that's been a challenge that we still been kind of digging our way out of. We do a bunch of defense stuff. We do some aerospace stuff and then industrial, And then we have done some accessories for the firearm industry when during the pandemic. That was, a big industry that was very helpful for us to stay afloat because there was a lot of activity there. But so it's been 25 years that I've been here since getting out of the Navy and continuing to learn and grow and kind of figure out, hey. How do you motivate a team to, you know, come back and keep doing similar things? And I think keeping fresh projects and new stuff in front of us has been very helpful in that. We do a lot of recruiting of young engineers, both interns and recently graduated mechanical engineers in particular, to get them running machines and learning how to make stuff. We tell them we're gonna get them dirty and teach them how to make stuff.
Andy McCartney00:03:55 - 00:05:06
And so it's been a fun program to get, you know, pretty smart young people trying to understand the world of manufacturing. Most of them mechanical engineers typically kinda brainwash to be a design engineer one day, and yet they typically, in school, don't get very much of the kind of the practical application how to actually manufacture stuff. They do a lot of design for 3 d printing, which is a great way to learn, except that then how do you scale an idea when it needs to be adjusted for manufacturing? And so that's been a a fun probably the last 7 years, we've been doing a lot of that, which has been pretty cool. And then kind of our latest thing, we have our 1st robotic cell. It's been successful. It's a 3rd attempt over the years to get a robotic loading cell, but we have a family of products that we're loading robotically, and we've been doing that since August, September. And it's it's proven to be, pretty beneficial. And having a bunch of young engineers seeing a robot kinda like moths to the flame, they get excited about seeing cool stuff because it is pretty cool to watch and getting them plugged in, working to make that as as effective as possible and, trying to keep the keep it running over the weekend and stuff poses some unique challenges, but, you know, our team's been working on it.
Andy McCartney00:05:06 - 00:05:25
And, the next 2 the next 2 cells are being planned and worked down in prep for because it is a nice way to to both keep our engineers engaged in how do we do things in a different way. And it is just cool to be able to say, hey. We got this thing set up. We spent a lot of time and energy, and now it'll run until we come in tomorrow morning. So pretty cool.
Wayne Herring00:05:26 - 00:06:18
Well so we we didn't talk about all this before we got in the call, but so I'm a civil engineer by training, and I went and had a job. I'm you know, came from a blue collar family and first generation college kid, and there was a concrete production facility nearby. And I don't know why, but I just had the instinct that I well, first of all, it was a really good job. They'll get paid well per hour, and I could get lots of hours in. But on top of that, I had a sense I wanted to learn how things actually got built. And when I was there, the guys on the team, of course, called me well, they called me lots of things, but I was the engineer. Right? And, but but we had fun. And so my first job out of college, well, I was telling you that I was in Colorado was I went and worked for a design build, drilling and blasting, and soil nailing company partially because I just wanna get my hands dirty, and you just said you're doing that for mechanical engineers.
Wayne Herring00:06:18 - 00:06:23
So Yeah. That's really cool. Like, I I appreciate that, and I I think that's important.
Andy McCartney00:06:23 - 00:07:30
Well, there are a lot of, students, especially, I think, nowadays, where there's so much computer oriented stuff that that they just really wanna be behind a computer screen and and, you know, making 3 d CAD dance and do all this stuff. And it's kind of a video game to them, which, video games tend to be popular with, the younger generation. But then there's a bunch that do wanna get dirty. Right? And and or or certainly more than willing to, especially when they see a vision that says, hey, this is gonna help me kinda understand kind of what you intuitively it sounds like you intuitively had in mind that, hey. If I learn how to do this from the ground up, and then it'll help me when I'm when I'm kinda in bigger picture stuff. And so trying to knowing that they're coming in not wanting to spend the rest of their life running a machine, but knowing that they got some some gray matter to put to use. And it's it's important for them to get an understanding of how how stuff actually gets done so that when they one day get to design something cool that is gonna solve some of the world's problem that they can do it in a way that allow it to be manufacturable. That's really neat.
Andy McCartney00:07:30 - 00:07:30
That's cool.
Wayne Herring00:07:31 - 00:07:44
How do you how do you deal with it it would seem to me like they might be getting job offers out of college sometimes for salaries and bigger companies. And how does that work out with your labor rate and the work that you're doing?
Andy McCartney00:07:44 - 00:08:16
When so I it's been an evolutionary process. So we built a process to interview that involves having them come in and actually run machines during the during the interview process, which it does 2 things. You build a process like that that feels like you're part of a system. So they come in and they it's a very structured interview process over typically 2 hours. And that we either find that somebody really loves it or they don't. And if they don't, that's totally fine. If they do, then they're like, wait. I can do this for real, and I'm gonna learn stuff.
Andy McCartney00:08:16 - 00:09:01
And then what we've evolved to is where we kinda build a growing pay rate scale that they start at the hourly equivalent of of 55,000. So, you know, it's certainly more than somebody walking off the street to get a machining job because they don't know anything, really. But and then every 4 months, they get a bump to when, at the end of 2 years, they're effectively making an equivalent of 70,000. So so what we found is that does at least two things. 1, it sets a expectation of growth. So you're not here to come in. And if you're still doing the same thing on day 40 as you're doing on day 1, we've totally missed the boat. Right? And so we have that trajectory of growth that we expect.
Andy McCartney00:09:02 - 00:09:20
It feels it makes you feel like, okay. It's a 2 year program, which they're coming out of recently graduating from a 4 or 5 year program going, okay. It's program. And Right. They allow themselves to look at that last number, which is now up to 70. We've adjusted as we've gone. But
Wayne Herring00:09:21 - 00:09:21
Yeah.
Andy McCartney00:09:21 - 00:09:27
They can go back to their parents and say, I'm starting here, but I'm gonna be here in 2 years.
Wayne Herring00:09:27 - 00:09:28
Yeah. On track.
Andy McCartney00:09:28 - 00:10:05
And I'm a entry level engineer. So parents like to hear the word engineer, which is why, you know, they're more than happy to say, hey. Go to school and become an engineer, because that's more socially acceptable at a cocktail party to say, hey. My kid's gonna be an engineer, or my kid is an engineer. And and so that you know, having them compare where they're gonna be in 2 years, which is typically a bigger number than what they're getting offered out of school. But still still come in and start at a lower number. And we tell them that first year is a big wicket. Right? Because they get to where they're 62 or whatever, somewhere in the middle between the 5570.
Andy McCartney00:10:07 - 00:10:44
And we either know, look, this one is one that's gonna really stick and and go, or this is one that, you know, is kinda starting to stagnate and not excited to grow. And we're fine with it. It's just we want to have our eyes open and know that. So part of where this came from, right, I was in the Navy. And so when I showed up at my first ship, I was taken over a division for a guy who'd been there for about 2 years, and I was there for a year and a half, just under 2 years. And the next person was coming to take me. So we're always bringing people into the program, knowing that there's gonna be some that come out the other side. And so we're trying to grow, and we're trying to keep enough going on to keep them engaged.
Andy McCartney00:10:44 - 00:11:03
And some are better fits than others, and some love it more than others. And the job market goes up and down. And so there's a lot of variables. But most people in kind of running companies of our size and and kinda our nature, they wanna have somebody come in and run for 15, 20 years. Right? And
Wayne Herring00:11:04 - 00:11:11
Right. So yeah. I heard I picked up on that. That was different the way you said because of your experience in the navy that just made sense to you, and that was no problem to you.
Andy McCartney00:11:12 - 00:11:41
We spent all this time training them. We did. There's no question. And yet they pick up stuff so fast, and they want to learn. And if we've done our job in the interview and upfront process to find ones that have a humility about them that says I got a lot to learn, they have a hunger to be able to wanna get after it and learn and work hard. They're not afraid to get dirty. Right? And then opportunity to focus on their learning and kinda stay in the mode. Hey.
Andy McCartney00:11:41 - 00:12:11
Here's what I'm learning today, and then tomorrow is gonna be something different because we know they need the variety to keep their energy going. So they rotate on all 3 shifts. So they spend some time on 1st shift, but then they spend some time on 2nd shift. They spend on some time on 3rd shift. And I was doing an interview just the other day, and we have a couple degreed engineers running machines on 3rd shift. And when I tell that to somebody who's running a CNC machine, I'd be like, which Jedi mind trick did you use to get that to happen? And the answer is, it wasn't. Right? I've I've given them a program to follow that everybody is doing. Yeah.
Andy McCartney00:12:11 - 00:12:56
And I tell them, I don't expect anybody to follow-up with a second or third shift. If they do, they're happy to stay on it for a long time. But most likely they won't. But they'll also typically report that they learned a lot more during that time because there weren't as many people to go ask questions. They gotta figure more stuff out on their own. They have more different things that they could get trained to run and do. And so, I don't know, it's been a fun program, and I think especially as so few people understand kind of the mechanics of it and what can make it work and why it would be worth it as somebody who's spent 4 years smart enough to get a piece of paper that said, hey. You're a pretty smart engineering kind of person to then commit a couple years of their life to running machines to learn at the very base fundamental level how to make stuff.
Andy McCartney00:12:56 - 00:13:18
And and so that we inarguably are overpaying them when they start, And we get it's probably fair to say, but by the end, we're inarguably underpaying them. And so, you know dollars. In dollars. Right? In dollars. But the and it's not about the dollars. Right? I mean, you know, our interns come in at $17 an hour. There's they can get higher paying jobs. There's zero question.
Andy McCartney00:13:19 - 00:13:27
But it's not about the money. It's about the experience of actually getting in, and and it doesn't hurt that we have a bunch of young people in the building because of the program. So they come in
Wayne Herring00:13:27 - 00:13:31
Yeah. There's There's the energy in there. Taking my tour. Right? And Yeah.
Andy McCartney00:13:31 - 00:13:32
So it just snowballs on itself.
Wayne Herring00:13:32 - 00:13:33
So really cool.
Andy McCartney00:13:33 - 00:13:35
No. It's been fun. Been really fun.
Wayne Herring00:13:35 - 00:14:46
I had a person that helped me build my sales team back when I was working with my dad, and she said, as she helped me understand how to recruit people that you might think wouldn't come take this job, she learned she helped me understand my full, you know, compensation proposition, which was financial compensation, but also she called it intellectual and emotional compensation. Intellectual being all the things you learn that even if you leave, which sure we hope maybe you stay for a long time, but if you don't, that's okay. You're gonna take those things with you. The things you've learned and emotional is what you know, what you're talking about, culture and people and energy and building cool stuff. So, yeah, that really works. So I'm gonna, this is the part where I'm gonna open up the screen share because I saw this before I started talking to you. And what is on my screen is learn about a career at Bowden Manufacturing, join our team, and that your website is, really clear when it comes to there's a section I don't know that I'm gonna pull this up, but there's a section on if I'm a client of yours, so I get a customer advocate. I saw that.
Andy McCartney00:14:46 - 00:14:46
Yep.
Wayne Herring00:14:46 - 00:15:19
With my own advocate inside. I also noticed that you have videos about 2 second lean, and I saw the young people replacing glass in some of the CNC machines, and I could see the energy, and you were having fun too while you were recording the video. So I would encourage anybody to take a look at it's b o w denmfg.com, Bowden, short for manufacturing.com, and we're in your careers page. But, yeah, you've got a noticeably kinda young crowd there who is helping you.
Andy McCartney00:15:19 - 00:15:52
So that top picture that you're showing by the sign, right, those are all either interns or recently graduated young engineers. So, I mean, in with 55 people in the summertime when we get, you know, sometimes upwards of 20, 25 interns in, like, really takes over the numbers. And, yeah, it's a great way to get caught up on a whole bunch of stuff when you got a bunch young bunch of young extra enthusiasm in the building and rotating across all 3 shifts. So it's been really fun.
Wayne Herring00:15:52 - 00:16:11
Get your hands dirty and build stuff is what it has there. And then the other thing, I think I was on a page and see if I find it here. But this is what you're well, partially what you're describing about the job interview, and you lay it out so clearly, there's 3 step, how it's gonna go and what's gonna happen so they know what to expect. Right?
Andy McCartney00:16:12 - 00:17:00
Yeah. No. And and the other piece to that, Wayne so we a new person interviewing will spend time with 4 to 6 of our teammates, and we do that intentionally. They each when the person is leaves the interview, their responsibility is to tell us, hey. Do you wanna continue with the process? And everybody that they interacted with has a little has a little critique form to fill out. And the bottom question on that page is, should we hire this person, or should we send an offer to this person? And if we don't get yeses across the board, then we either have to have a really serious conversation with whoever said no or said maybe to understand what their reservations were. But, I mean, just yesterday, we had one where the one person said no, and we said, okay. Well so I said, hey.
Andy McCartney00:17:00 - 00:17:37
Let me know what's going on here. And and the person was coming through interviewing. And when our guy went to go show him something, hey. And this is and the the student was so excited to jump to prove what he knew. It's like, no. Oh, that's a and it happened 3 or 4 times to where he was jumping the gun, and maybe 1 out of the 4, he was right. And so what our teammate knew was that when he was gonna be trained something, the student was gonna was gonna jump the gun. And if he wasn't being trained by somebody who was enough of authoritarian to push him back, it was gonna cause problems.
Andy McCartney00:17:37 - 00:18:18
And the number one thing that we're looking for is that sense of humility that says, I don't know everything I wanna learn. And it's hard because it when it feels like a job interview, I need to show off so they'll like me. And that's 180 out from what we're looking for. We're looking for somebody who's interested and excited about what's going on in the building and knows that they have a lot to learn. And so but so the other thing that happens is if that person gets hired, it's because 4 to 6 people said that we should hire that person, which means now there's 4 to 6 people Yeah. That are personally invested in making sure that person is successful. Because if it goes wrong, in the back of their head, they know, okay. When our HR person pulls out, hey.
Andy McCartney00:18:18 - 00:18:35
Here's 6 people who said yes to this person, and it went horribly wrong. How did that happen? Because it's really easy to forget, oh, no. I didn't like that. I never liked that one. Okay. Well, it's here on a piece of paper. You said that we should hire this person. And and not that we use that as a thing.
Andy McCartney00:18:35 - 00:19:07
We just know that having people invested in our new people being successful is hugely important because it's very stereotypical old buying machine shops that, hey, kids. Slow down. You're making us look bad. And all those cliches around putting people through what we went through when we were first learning stuff. Right? I mean, I came from the Navy. Went to he went to a boot camp. I went to bleep summer at the Naval Academy, and you expect to get beat on. Well, 25, 30 years later now, we live in a little different world, and it's not the same experience.
Andy McCartney00:19:07 - 00:19:17
And and so we can't want to do to what we vaguely remember was done to us 25 or 30 years ago. That's not that's not gonna be productive for us.
Wayne Herring00:19:18 - 00:19:35
Yeah. Wow. There's so much there. I won't go down all the places my brain is going right now, but how do you keep the funnel the top of the funnel full of these young engineers and probably others too? I mean, you probably would hire you hire other Sure. Athena or people, right, that could do the work?
Andy McCartney00:19:35 - 00:20:10
No. And and having our careers page be clear and inviting. And I do think that the the biggest area we've had success in is with the interns and young engineers and because colleges host career fairs. And so you go to career fair, and at the career fair, all we're trying to do is, hey. Are you interested in getting dirty learn how to make stuff? If you do, give me a resume. We'll send you an invite and bring you in to take a tour. Right? And and when you get them in the door and it's interesting, Wayne, and and you'll appreciate this. Right? So let's say we go to a career fair and we bring home 40 resumes.
Andy McCartney00:20:10 - 00:20:35
Mhmm. We'll send out 40 emails inviting them to and we'll list here's 5 days or 6 days of times to come into an interview. Just just send us so they have to get the email Sure. Read it, process it, pick a time, and email us back. There are 2 preferred a preferred time and 2 alternates. And if none of those times work, just email us and let us know. We'll schedule a special time. So they have to respond to the email Mhmm.
Andy McCartney00:20:35 - 00:20:59
To select the time. It gets acknowledged. They have to show up on time ready to engage with the team, do their stuff. When they leave, they have to send us email back. If we start with 40, maybe 25 will actually respond. 18 will actually make it for the interview. Mhmm. And let's say 8 to 10 of them are ones that we would say, hey.
Andy McCartney00:20:59 - 00:21:36
These would be a great fit for us. So we start with that funnel, if you will, and it gets down to, hey. Here's 8 to 10 that we think we could invite to come. And there's other there's other opportunities and options out there. So to get to take 40 to get 6 to 6 to 10 on a good crop is what it takes. So we typically go to Cleveland State, Akron in case, 3 career fairs a semester, and we'll come back with anywhere from 30 to 50 resumes from each. And we send out a ton because a lot of people will say, hey. This is a great thing you're doing to give back to the community, and there's very limited piece that's a give back.
Andy McCartney00:21:36 - 00:22:04
Right? So we're doing it to hire people to come run production for us. This is not I mean, even a lot of engineering internships and my daughter was a mechanical engineer at Penn State as we were talking about. She did internships and mostly was in a cubicle doing extra engineering stuff. So it her position felt like overhead to that company, but it was a path of recruiting. For us, they're coming in to run machines. They're coming in to produce product for us. It's not an overhead expense. It's a direct Yeah.
Andy McCartney00:22:05 - 00:22:46
Direct opportunity for us to to provide production. And so it's a different equation. And so inviting people to come in takes that's the piece where I any student who would wanna come here to take a tour, I want them to do it. And and I got that really from my dad, which is you wanna get them in the building to either find out what they do or don't wanna do with their lives. And it's probably just as valuable for that person to find out, hey. I don't wanna do that as much as and I would love to do that. Because either way, you're gonna get a a reaction that will help them one more step on the way of figuring out what they wanna do. And, obviously, we believe we love manufacturing.
Andy McCartney00:22:46 - 00:23:16
So, you know, anybody who can come in and pick up the enthusiasm for manufacturing that we have and wanna be a part of it, hey. We're all in to do that. And and so the altruistic piece, if you will, is that we'll interview kids that will determine this is not what I wanna do and Sure. Helping the kid. Obviously, it's taking our time and energy to do that. But, really, it's, you know, enlightened self interest, isn't it? We we say, hey. We'll give the kid an opportunity, and we benefit from it almost as much as the kid does.
Wayne Herring00:23:16 - 00:23:30
Yeah. Got it. And then how do you keep bringing in work that is relevant and exciting? You mentioned a couple of different types of markets that you're in. What is but what does sales and marketing look like for you?
Andy McCartney00:23:30 - 00:24:13
So it is I mean, again, always a challenge to to get where we do with a lot of big defense contractors, and and it was funny. We went to, the Association of the US Army has a big show in October every year, and and so we go walk that show. And this year was the first time, and I think it's largely because of the whole Ukraine, Russia war thing has put a lot of pressure on the military supply chain to help both feed the good guys in that battle, but then restock all the stuff that we need that's being sent over. And so it was the first time where we would go up to a booth and say, hey. You got any procurement people around? And they yeah. They're right over there. Like, they they actually wanted to talk to us. Like, they normally go to those shows, and they're just trying to sell to their customers, which are governments and all this stuff.
Andy McCartney00:24:13 - 00:25:01
But this time, they actually wanted to talk to supply chain folks because right now, with the the market the way it is, with all the equipment that's needed, if you can build it, you can ship it to somebody. Mhmm. And they need to expand their supply chains, and it's really a tough time a lot. I mean, people are getting busy and then they can't staff, and it's really a struggle. And yet the unfortunate reality is these big defense contractors, it is so hard to get through to somebody who's actually buying something that they need because they'll stick with a challenge that they know and a supplier who's been who's just overwhelmed but who's been on a supplier record for a really long time. And it's hard to try new things, especially in a big company where Sure. It's risk.
Wayne Herring00:25:01 - 00:25:01
Risky.
Andy McCartney00:25:01 - 00:25:19
Yeah. You're right. Purchasing folks. So we are trying to make sure they see, hey. We have the credentials. We're dealing with a lot of big defense contractors. We thrive in that environment. As you you mentioned, I mean, there's a bunch of stuff that we do to be very proactive in our customer service aspect of how we make sure that they know what's going on.
Andy McCartney00:25:19 - 00:26:05
Because especially the first time, it's really can be nerve wracking to try somebody new. And every customer, every week gets an email from us with a status updated status on every order that we have. And nobody in our industry got our vendors, we send it to our vendors saying, hey. Fill the status report out for us. We have 1 or 2 customers that will send us a a similar thing asking for a status, but we do without being asked because, look, if I was in a relationship with you, I'd wanna know what's going on every week. Yeah. And and so that's just a a part of how we try and keep our current customers happy, and we talk about it with new folks if we can get in the right room with somebody, which is in these massive corporations can be really challenging, where we know they need help, they know they need help, and yet their system is so unwieldy. It can be very challenging to get through.
Andy McCartney00:26:05 - 00:26:48
So, you know, we're continuing to to pound in those areas and see how we get new stuff to do. It's funny because for us, any new kind of machining job that fits in the wheelhouse of what we do is a whole new project for a young engineer in our building to, hey. Let's figure this out. From what raw material we're gonna buy to how we're gonna hold it, how we're gonna process it, and and how we're gonna check it. Right? Divide you know, how do we make the inspection plan and do it? And and so we tell them that our their the goal is to be able to hand them a drawing and for them design and execute that manufacturing process from beginning to end. You know, the first time we do it with them, you give them a really simple job, and they've been running stuff. They're feeling pretty good. I can do this and they say, okay.
Andy McCartney00:26:48 - 00:27:04
Let's start this from scratch. And their head explodes because Right. This is way more detail to it than they ever imagined. And so we try and have that moment happen sooner than later because they can't help but feel like, alright. I got this job. I got this harder job. I can do this. I can do this.
Andy McCartney00:27:04 - 00:27:13
And all of a sudden, okay. How about this really simple job? That looks simple. And then he's okay. Now let's start from beginning and go through it. No. Holy mackerel. There's a lot going on there. I don't even know where to start.
Andy McCartney00:27:13 - 00:27:31
Right? And and that moment of, hey. I still have a lot to learn. That's an important to have that happen early enough in the process that it can build some momentum for the ones who really wanna engage and and think and figure out how to take something from beginning to end. It's a great design process for them. So
Wayne Herring00:27:32 - 00:27:43
Yeah. So 25 years you've been there, and I and I love recruiting and creating programs for people that help them thrive and not doing exactly what everybody else does, which is why
Andy McCartney00:27:43 - 00:27:44
it was so easy for
Wayne Herring00:27:44 - 00:27:51
me to get interested about that. But you've been there for 25 years. I think I read the company. It's been around since 1952. Is that right?
Andy McCartney00:27:51 - 00:27:52
That's true.
Wayne Herring00:27:52 - 00:28:03
And you mentioned your dad just now, like, quickly. I learned from my dad, so I don't know if he was involved or just learned from him somewhere else. But, like, what what is the bit of the story about and and the story of your time there?
Andy McCartney00:28:04 - 00:28:30
Sure. So Bowden was started by a couple of brothers named Bowden and one of their partner back in 52. And and my dad was a sales rep in the early seventies and had some friends that they were looking to invest here. There was one of the partners wanted to get out, and and so they asked my dad to come in and run it. And the the Bowden Brothers used to work at GE in the purchasing department, and GE was gonna go through some outsourcing. And so they decided, hey. We'll get on the outside, and we'll do some manufacturing. And that worked great.
Andy McCartney00:28:30 - 00:28:52
When GE was busy, they were busy. When GE wasn't busy, they weren't busy. And so my dad came in to help diversify the customer base, which he helped do over the 5 years he was here, and they had a buyer. He was out my dad was out west skiing and got the phone call from his partners. Hey. The guy backed out of the deal. And so he said, why don't you just cut me the same deal, and I'll just buy you guys out, and I'll stay. And so that's what he did.
Andy McCartney00:28:52 - 00:29:16
I was 5 at the time. My inner brother was 4. My older brother was 9. And so my dad just stayed, and he was here. I got out of the Navy in 98 and and really I interviewed a bunch of places, but it came down to it. I couldn't pass And I'm like, okay. Whatever. I didn't know.
Andy McCartney00:29:16 - 00:29:42
And, you know, a year later, I'm like, I love manufacturing. It's really cool. You can see the beginning and end of it. Right? It's I mean, you go you learn business stuff, and I didn't have much business training at the time. But when you talk about inventory, what does that mean? Well, now I can go out and look at steel and look at aluminum and say, okay. It starts to this. It makes this this is the value that we've added, and now we got it to to be able to provide to a customer. And so it's very tangible stuff, and figuring out mechanically oriented problems is is pretty fun for me.
Andy McCartney00:29:42 - 00:30:17
And so we were just under 3,000,000 when I kinda got here, and we needed sales at the time because we had been come off a big project. And so I went out and learned what customers were doing, kinda sucked my nose in. Hey. What can we help you with? And we got a couple customers and started to grow, and we got as high as 11. We were 8 last year coming off kinda still struggling to recover from the pandemic, but we got some good growth stuff in in the midst right now. And that up and down of manufacturing is always the challenge. Right? And it's more fun to be going up than it is to be going down for sure. But I would kid with people, hey.
Andy McCartney00:30:17 - 00:30:55
Last year, our supply availability capacity met our demand for about 45 minutes. And if those 45 minutes were consecutive, that would have been really fun, but they weren't. Like, 5 minutes in October and Uh-huh. 20 minutes in November, maybe 5 minutes into you know, I mean, just but that's the joke is it's either going one way or the other. And so dealing with the change, the inevitable change of workload, you get a customer and the project comes to the end of its life cycle, and then you're trying to get a new customer and ramp up into something new. But so it's been fun trying to continue to learn and grow and figure out new ways to do stuff and embracing new technology and and new ways of thinking about stuff.
Wayne Herring00:30:56 - 00:31:08
You seem to me like you still love it. Do you I'm not saying you love it every day. I mean, we all have, like, moments or whatever, but you're really engaged and you're excited as you talk about these different pieces.
Andy McCartney00:31:08 - 00:31:41
Yeah. No. It's really fun. And and I think trying to to build systems and they're complicated systems because there's people involved. Mhmm. Right? And and, I mean, if it was just mechanical systems, they design a system the beauty is if you do it right, 2+2 can be 27th and really have it do something fun. And you find those spots where didn't go so great. Alright.
Andy McCartney00:31:41 - 00:32:12
We gotta figure that one out again because 2 +2 meant negative 6. And so figuring out those missteps and working to try and improve and and build systems that can grow and kinda learn and grow as as they are. I love seeing, especially young people, figure stuff out and figure out what they really like to do. We all have this unique set of skills and tools that we bring to any kind of team and how we plug those in, and it it can be very, very satisfying when it goes well. And and so that's the stuff that keeps me going.
Wayne Herring00:32:12 - 00:32:53
Yeah. I'm gonna try to ask you 2 more questions. So what one is these systems, like like, the system when it comes to attracting these younger people and the interview process and the things that I see on your website that are spelled out. I get it that you didn't do this alone. There's other people. But there's a lot of that you're kind of being able to step back and see what's going on overall and creating processes and thinking about, wouldn't it be great if people came in and then we ask them this and ask them that. Is is a lot of that, like, that your form of art? I always say businesses like art like creating art, just you don't use paints or clay. It's systems and people.
Andy McCartney00:32:53 - 00:33:39
Yeah. And I there's definitely there's some of that. I think one of the most important lesson that I've learned and I keep trying to make sure sure I learn, and and literally as earlier this afternoon, I had a meeting where if it's only my idea, and as you can imagine, I can talk with emotion and conviction when I'm excited about something. Sure. And even my senior team, I need to really push them hard to push back on me, because I can be very I can I can end up making a decision? And and when you're the guy in the corner office that owns the business, why it's hard to push back. And and yet I don't care if it's my idea that gets used. I just want the best idea. And and I want us to not be afraid to try stuff and to figure out what does work and doesn't.
Andy McCartney00:33:39 - 00:34:32
And the compelling nature of the story that we're trying to craft that will engage young engineers to wanna get there and learn how to make stuff for their betterment is something that is, a story I know I can convey when I I tell the story. I I read the book Building a Story Brand by Donald Miller. Mhmm. And I realized that his framework was what I was using so successfully to sell young engineers on this place. Yeah. And so I'm I'm all in on Don and the StoryBrand methodology, as it pertains to any way of communicating and and living into a story, having our customers live into a story that that we can help them with. And I wanna throw a lot of good ideas out and see what sticks, and I want my team to do it. I wanna continue to learn and grow, and I want them to wanna continue to learn and grow because I think that's really important.
Andy McCartney00:34:33 - 00:35:03
You can be in the same place for 25 years, and you can get 1 year of experience 25 times in a row, or you can actually get 5 years of experience. And we look back at the stuff that we thought was really good 10 years ago, like, okay. Well, we've done way better. Right? And so it is I don't know. I I get charged up doing it, and I I need to keep my enthusiasm in check when we're making decisions because if if it's all my decision, then it's always gonna be on me to do it, and I need them being creative and thinking through, hey. How do we solve these problems better?
Wayne Herring00:35:04 - 00:35:21
Yeah. I love that. So I hear that actually, like, you're creating the canvas in that art analogy. You create the canvas so that your team can help put what needs to go on that canvas to to bring the story together. So that's the last question
Andy McCartney00:35:21 - 00:35:21
Last question.
Wayne Herring00:35:21 - 00:35:46
Is we connect on LinkedIn. I love meeting people on LinkedIn and then, like, really getting to meet them like this. And sometimes they even get in to meet them in person. Sometimes they end up joining our business builder group. Sometimes it's not that. And it's just somebody I then get to follow and see what they're up to, and they add to our people, which you've done here. I know this has been something that's gonna stimulate a lot of thinking. But I did ask you in a LinkedIn message, like, hey.
Wayne Herring00:35:46 - 00:36:35
You know? Are you in any kind of groups, and would you be interested in joining business builders? And what you said was you have other groups that you are participating in now. And I said, oh, great. Well, then maybe we could hear about that. So could you share a little bit about because part of the thing that I get excited about, and this is about you, not me, but I get excited about bringing these business owners together and having them in a place of creativity where they can share what's working for 1 person and what they're doing over here. And sometimes they'll kinda remember what somebody committed to and help hold them accountable. So I love that mastermind mix mixing it up. And it sounds like you've done some of that. So my last question I'd like to ask you is how has interacting and being with other people from other businesses helped you grow and helped you create some of what I've seen on the screen and what you've described today?
Andy McCartney00:36:36 - 00:37:08
So, yeah, there's and and it's actually it was this morning at 10 o'clock. This is the one that's the most consistent. So every Wednesday morning from 10 to 11, there's a group of 8 of us that we get together. I've been part of that group for going on 2 years. They were actually going before, and I met them through so Darren Hardy is a guy that if you've seen me on LinkedIn, you've seen me post on a regular basis. He has a a daily video that he puts out. And so I watch it and and I repost it. I shared on LinkedIn with kind of my take on some aspect of what he did and what it forces me to do and knowing that I'm gonna post every day about it.
Andy McCartney00:37:08 - 00:38:00
It gets me to pay closer attention to what he's saying Yeah. And how it would apply in my world and then practice of of kind of communing communicating that idea in a in a succinct post. And so he has a couple different programs. I've done all of his programs, but the kinda his peak one is called the business master class. And so the group of 8 of us have all been through at least one of those business master classes. And what I found in having a group that came from that organization, that event so at the time, it was probably 8 or 10 $1,000 to go, and you traveled to it and spent some time. So we have a group of people who've all invested significantly in their interest in personal and business growth and development, and are serious enough about it that they wanna continue to carry those ideas forward and bounce off of each other. And we're all from different industries, which in some ways is helpful.
Andy McCartney00:38:00 - 00:38:50
I I do think and you and I touched in our messaging back and forth that having one that could be just kind of my industry would also be helpful. But the different perspectives from different ages and backgrounds and locations in the country and ideas around stuff, And we've been doing it enough that and we've gotten together once as a group last summer, but it's on Zoom, of course. And and the opportunity to get to know people, and we have a standard format to kinda share our wins or losses, our fixes, any help needed in our goals. It's a really good to both hold each other accountable to and getting back into the ideas of the conference. Because you go to a conference, you get so many ideas. You're all excited, and then you come back. And in 2 weeks, you're sucked right back into your daily stuff. And to to take time out once a week to go spend an hour, Every other Friday, I have another group.
Andy McCartney00:38:50 - 00:39:39
There's 4 of us that came from the same event, but every other Friday at 3 in the afternoon. And so that's been another one. And then I have a kind of a family business group that goes once a month on a Tuesday morning. And so, you know, trying to balance, you wanna spend it's invaluable to be part of a group. And if anybody is listening that is feeling like they're on an island because they're running their own business and not connecting with other business owners. There's just stuff that you can only share with somebody else who knows what you're going through. And building that whether it's once a month or once every other week or once a week to build a network of those folks that if I have a question and I know that Chris is, you know, particularly strong in that, or I know Cindy is particularly good at that, or Kim is, or whatever, You have somebody to go to to bounce ideas off of. You know that you have to show up that time every week and be held accountable.
Andy McCartney00:39:39 - 00:40:10
Hey. This is what I said I was gonna do. Did I do it? And if not, why not? And, again, it's you're only gonna get out of it what you put into it. And yet the opportunity to engage with other business owners going through it, there's just it's an invaluable thing. And and so, you know, it's one of those things my it's right in the middle of my week. Mhmm. And, I mean, it takes a lot to I'm either totally on vacation off grid or I'm gonna be there. Right? And and so I try not to mess mess that up because it's such an important part.
Andy McCartney00:40:10 - 00:40:12
And and the one that we have
Wayne Herring00:40:12 - 00:40:15
Right? That's what makes it they need you. The other people in the group need you.
Andy McCartney00:40:15 - 00:40:42
Yeah. It's part of it. Makes it commitment. I I also have a board of advisers, and the irony was is none of them in my group also have a board of advisers. And they think of our group as kind of their board of advisers, which is true in many ways. I do think it's it's it's also helpful to have a couple of trusted folks that you let inside the the door to see all the all the numbers and all the stuff. Because I went to Naval Academy. I took one macroeconomics course.
Andy McCartney00:40:42 - 00:41:14
I I I don't have the financial background, and and so I wanna have other smart people that know way more about that and way larger scenarios than mine to help backstop me because, hey, there's 55 families here that are counting on me to make sure we're doing good stuff, and I take that responsibility seriously. And and so definitely encourage folks to to get into a group. And, obviously, I'm sure you got a good one based on our conversation and just getting other people that are like minded who wanna continue to learn and grow and who'll commit to that time. And so definitely encourage that. I've gotten a lot out of it.
Wayne Herring00:41:15 - 00:41:26
Awesome. Well, that's a great place to end. Thank you so much for sharing your time and your talent and insights. And, again, anybody listening, Bowden, yeah, Bowden. I said it wrong.
Andy McCartney00:41:26 - 00:41:26
Mhmm.
Wayne Herring00:41:26 - 00:41:35
B o w d n m f g.com. And, Andy, are you open to if anybody wants to connect by LinkedIn or anything like that? Sure.
Andy McCartney00:41:35 - 00:41:38
Yeah. No. I'm on LinkedIn. Happy to connect.
Wayne Herring00:41:39 - 00:41:43
K. Great. Well, thanks again. We'll send you the episode when it's finished, and, take care of business builders.
Andy McCartney00:41:44 - 00:41:44
Alright.

00:00 Andy McCartney: Unique recruiting program for machine shop.

03:55 Fun program teaches young engineers manufacturing practicalities.

06:23 Students are drawn to technology, but value understanding.

12:11 Long shifts lead to valuable independent learning.

13:35 Mentor helped understand recruitment and compensation proposition.

16:12 Team interviews determine if job offer is made.

22:05 Encouraging visits to explore manufacturing career options.

25:19 Regular status updates keep customers happy and informed.

26:05 Continuing to develop new machining projects collaboratively.

30:17 Supply met demand for 45 minutes sporadically.

35:46 Seeking interest in joining business builders groups.

38:50 Regular networking builds support and accountability for entrepreneurs.

40:42 Seeking financial support for a serious responsibility.

1. How has being part of a business master class program impacted Andy McCartney's perspective on business and personal growth?
2. What are the benefits of being part of a group of diverse individuals from different industries who share wins, losses, and goals in business development?
3. How has Andy McCartney's experience with having a board of advisors and trusted individuals handling financial matters impacted his business decisions and growth?
4. In what ways has Andy emphasized the value of networking with like-minded individuals and how has it contributed to his business success?
5. What challenges has Andy identified in the defense contracting market in terms of sales and marketing, and how have global conflicts impacted the military supply chain?
6. How has Bowden Manufacturing adapted to the challenges presented by the pandemic and changes in workload, and what strategies have they used to maintain business growth?
7. What unique recruiting program has Bowden Manufacturing developed to attract mechanical engineering graduates and provide hands-on experience in manufacturing?
8. How does Andy McCartney's company differentiate their internships from typical engineering internships, and what impact does this approach have on attracting talent?
9. What role does continuous learning and creative problem-solving play in Bowden Manufacturing's culture, and how does it contribute to the company's success?
10. How has Andy McCartney's experience in the navy influenced his approach to mentorship and finding individuals willing to learn and work hard, and how does this impact the company's recruitment and employee development?